Hayder Al-Shakeri
Hello, everyone, good morning, good afternoon, good evening. I hope you’re all doing great, and welcome to this webinar at Chatham House. This is a webinar about Gen Z and “How Gen Z are Reshaping Protests in North Africa.” My name is Hayder Al-Shakeri and I’m a Research Fellow with the Middle East and North Africa Programme at Chatham House. Just a reminder that this event is on the record, so it’s being recorded and is being livestreamed, and today we will be discussing the protests in North Africa, specifically Morocco and Tunisia, and how these protests are reshaping the scene in North Africa, and how demographic changes and the social contract is being reconstructed and renegotiated right now in these countries, and North Africa generally.
With us today, we have three amazing speakers, who will cover much of these dynamics, whether in these countries in particular, or whether in a regional context. So, we have, in order of speaking, Nissrine Ait Haji, she’s a Moroccan Entrepreneur and Operations Lead at [Sahaf – 02:49] Group. She is a Youth Activist, she’s an Entrepreneur, and she founded a few different platforms and initiatives, including Career Connect, where she helps Moroccan youth work within their economy.
We also have Mondher Tounsi. Mondher is a Research Analyst at the Global Initiative Against Transnational Organized Crime, and he’s also a doctoral candidate at St Antony’s College at the University of Oxford. Mondher is from Tunis and he is also focusing on governance, rule of law and authoritarian politics in the MENA region, and he worked a lot within Tunisian civil society, and he authored many reports throughout his studies and career. Last, but not least, we have Merissa Khurma. Merissa is a CEO of AMENA Strategy, and she’s an Associate Fellow with the Middle East Institute. She’s a former Programme Director of the Middle East Program at the Wilson Center, and a non-resident Fellow at the International Security Program at New America.
So, welcome everyone, and today we have a very, very interesting topic, we will be talking about these various actors, these various circumstances and the various events that we have been seeing in the region. I want to remind our attendees that there’s a Q&A function that we can use. So, if you have any questions throughout to our speakers, please, whenever you want, do type them down below and we will get to them after their opening remarks.
So, in the past few months, we have been seeing images from Rabat, from Marrakesh, from Tunis, Gabès, and other places, where young people, but also other generations, have been protesting. They’ve been protesting basic public services, they’re protesting healthcare, they have been demanding anti-corruption, but also demanding accountability and, you know, better rule of law. So, why is this happening now? What has been happening and how is this linked to the protests globally?
We have been seeing in Morocco, many of them have been identifying as Gen Z, the 212 Movement has been, sort of, linked in one way or another to protest across the globe. And we have been seeing, you know, some of the symbols, like, you know, some of the symbols and some of the images which have been used, you know, across the different countries globally. Similarly, we’ve been seeing in Tunis, there have been people, you know, protesting unemployment, pollution, in places from – you know, sometimes within bigger cities, but sometimes within places like Gabes, where there has been deteriorating circumstances. And across both countries, there has been protests in the past, but these protests have been in different dynamics. So, in Tunis, we witnessed the spark of the Arab Spring in 2011, and there has been, you know, massive changes since. Digital tools were used then, digital tools are being used now, especially in Morocco. So, how do we unpack all of this? What do we take out of all of this?
So, I think our panellists will help us understand some of these dynamics. They will help us understand some of the questions that have been arising in these spaces. How – why are people protesting now? How the demographic shifts have been impacting those protests. What are the government responses, if any, in these countries? And, also, how is the social contract shifting between these demographic changes and the government responses?
So, to start, I think we’ll start with you, Nissrine, and maybe you can start with telling us a bit about the – how, you know, young people in Morocco, how are they reacting to the changes? How – why did they protest back in – a few weeks ago, and how are they, you know, dealing with the situation now? Over to you, Nissrine.
Nissrine Ait Haji
Thank you, Hayder, and thank you to Chatham House. It is a pleasure to take part in this conversation, especially as someone who grew up in Morocco, who have lived abroad for years and then chose to come back home. And many young Moroccans have – are making the same choice out of love for our country and out of a sense of responsibility. We want to contribute and we want to be close to our families while doing it. And to understand the recent protests in Morocco, I think it’s important to remember something very fundamental about us. Morocco is not a country where people protest easily. So, ACLED data shows that in most years, the number of public demonstrations remain relatively low compared to other North African countries. So, when people mobilise on a national scale, it signals something very, very serious.
And at this time, the driving force was definitely and was clearly Gen Z, because this generation basically communicates differently, we organise differently, and it is a generation that is not afraid of visibility. So, in matters of days, the Discord server, the twen – the 220 – 212 server co-ordinating the movement grew to over 130,000, and it is now – it has now reached over 198,000 members. TikTok and Instagram were mainly the main channels, with content spreading in multiple languages, especially English, because they wanted to ensure that the message were understood – the messages were understood globally.
But what really shaped this movement compared to other movements in the past was the clarity of the message. The youth repeated everywhere that “This is not an anti-government movement or against the state, and certainly not against the monarchy.” The repeated line was, “We love our country, we love our king, and because of that, we want accountability and better governance.” And in Morocco, we have this paradoxical but very, very mentality, we are extremely protective of our country, so we say, like, it’s a very public slang, but, “I can hit you, but I will never let anyone else hit you.” So, even when those tensions appeared in some cities, the next day, because we had the football – the ma – the football team playing, you would see the same people who would fight, celebrating together, giving flowers, cheering for the national team, and this reflects our complexity as Moroccans. We are very emotional, but profoundly patriotic.
Now, what triggered this specific movement was first and foremost, the death of several women who went to give birth in public hospital in Agadir, the number was eight, I believe, you know, that tragedy reached every household. It didn’t require ideology and it spoke out of something very human. It created a shock that made silence feel impossible, and at the same times, you know, Moroccan youth were watching protests happening all around the globe. You said it, Hayder, on social media, in comment section, you know, you would see these sentences repeating, “They did it, so why can’t we?” And it was not out of confrontation, but it was as a recognition that young people everywhere were using digital tools to demand accountability.
So, I think that this global energy added a new layer of confidence to the youth, and, also, what is specific about Morocco was the timing. So, the CAN is coming, the World Cup is coming, Morocco’s image on the global stage matters at the time. And in the streets and online, you could hear young people saying, “If we don’t march today and put everyone in front of le fait accompli, nothing will change.” So, whether that perception was fully accurate or not, it, kind of, created a sense of urgency, as in, like, the feeling that this was the only moment where the country would truly listen.
But I think that beyond the timing, the deeper frustration had been building for years. You could feel it even before the protests happened, because Morocco has achieved remarkable progress in infrastructure, in megaproject and global visibility, but youth expectations have risen even faster. Because the basics have not kept the pace, and, you know, like, according to Haut Commissariat au Plan, nearly a third of the Moroccan population is aged 15 to 34, yet unemployment among university students reached 25.9% in 2023, so the highest in nearly 20 years. And at the same times, you know, you would have fif – I think more than 50% of the workers who have mit – who have, like, skill mismatch, suffer from skills mismatch. So, young people are studying more than ever but not accessing the opportunities they were promised.
And obviously, as I said, long-standing frustrations with health and education. Everyone knew – in Morocco knew that tensions were rising. You know, you would hear, “So, they’re able to build stadiums but not hospitals.” Like, for many young Moroccans, these inequalities were not abstract, they were personal, they affect their families, they shaped their future. And this is also where I speak from my own experience, as I said, I have moved back home, working inside a Moroccan company every day, you see both the progress and the difficulties. Because in Moroc – like, Morocco, as I said, have evolved in extraordinary ways, but when you’re on the ground, you see how uneven things can be. So, you see – you hear people say, “If I go abroad, I’ll be forced to give 100% of my energy, but here I can give 30%, and no-one would say anything about it.” You hear about medicine disappearing from hospitals, about equipment misuse or stolen.
So, part of the problem is not only institutional, it is also a behaviour – like, it is also behavioural, and young people know this, they live it. So, the protests were not simply a reaction to one event, but rather a reflection of a deeper misalignment. So, Morocco is building stadiums, highways, megaprojects, good for us, but youth want to see the same ambition in hospitals, in school, in job creations. And we want to see, you know, reforms happening before tragedy forces them to, not after, because we want…
Hayder Al-Shakeri
Hmmm hmm.
Nissrine Ait Haji
…institutions to deliver, not – and, you know, like a society that also respects the rules, because, unfortunately, a lot of people lack integrity. And, you know, then Gen Z stepped forward because they felt that dual responsibility. We didn’t – like, they didn’t mobilise to destroy. They mobilised to insist on alignment between ambition and reality, between visibility and abroad and justice at home. So, you give this image of Morocco globally…
Hayder Al-Shakeri
Hmmm hmm.
Nissrine Ait Haji
…we want the basic needs at home.
Hayder Al-Shakeri
Thank you.
Nissrine Ait Haji
Sorry.
Hayder Al-Shakeri
Thank you very much, Nissrine, and I think you touched upon some very important points, and thank you, also, for sharing your experience of a, you know, of a Moroccan who is going back home and who is contributing and, you know, telling us what you see in Morocco from the progress, but also from the accumulating pressure on, you know, on the new generation. This is very important.
We’ll come back to you with some more questions, but now we move to Mondher, and Mondher, maybe you can tell us a bit about the situation in Tunis. So, Tunis sparked the Arab Spring more than ten years ago and, you know, there was a lot of hope back then. Now protests are happening again in specific areas, people are asking for different demands, but there’s a lot of focus on environmental protection, accountability, things related to transparency. So, maybe tell us a bit about this, but also tell us about the role of youth in those situations.
Mondher Tounsi
Of course. First of all, thank you again for the invitation. To start with, I need to put the context for what is happening in Tunisia, starting from the Arab Spring. Obviously, the youth of the Arab Spring is not in the same category as the youth of today. It’s two completely different generations, and you have people like myself, I was 14 at the time, the regime change created a – shaped our political imaginaire. So, we are the generation that got to witness the democratisation of the country, the boom of civil society, and the hope, because we’ve seen young leaders and activists who also mobilised and they were brave souls who advocated for regime change, so that is what actually motivated us during that time.
Now, there were a lot of socioeconomic grievances at the time, as well, that is the outcome that I and many others got to witness. However, this created an expectation and disillusionment cycle, with initial hope, then stagnation. And every time with the reforms throughout the years, this has continued into the situation that we have now. So, this created a narrative that, one, democratisation does not actually impact socioeconomic grievances, because it has stayed the same, if not degraded over the years, and two, the current generation is living through more precarious conditions. They’ve also witnessed a lot of their fellow peers, who were advocates in the Arab Spring, either leave the country or, you know, also not really get anything out of this spring of hope. There’s also a loss of trust in formal politics, in the shape of unions, parties, you know, interest groups, and they don’t exist in many sco – in a bigger scope anyways right now.
So, what happened to the government trajectory is that aside from these socioeconomic grievances, there’s also a shift from pluralism to a hyper-presidential system. So, the institutional channels for dissent have been eroded, there’s a police expansion and there’s also securitisation of the digital landscape. You know, we have all these decree laws that are criminalising, you know, technically disinformation and misinformation, but they’re unfortunately, being used for dissent. So, as a youngster right now in Tunisia, and even outside of youth movement, there really isn’t a centralised and clear pathway for expressing dissent, because a lot of opponents are either jailed, the landscape is extremely diluted, things are complicated, so it’s not a very welcoming environment.
So, what this has created is that, in my way of seeing things, economic decline is seen, sort of, as the main driver, youth grievances. It shifted from ideological, politically motivated, sort of, demands, in the last decade, to more issue-based, to more right-based demands, like you said, dignity, transparency, employment. One, because the landscape doesn’t really allow for direct political demands, and two, because this is Gen Z and youngsters’ way of finding non-traditional forms of agency. This is how they’re able to actually express themselves in the landscape that we have.
So, how does mobilisation look like today? I would say that, first and foremost, it’s a digital-based mobilisation in a lot of ways. A lot of it comes from, you know, online discourse, TikTok, Instagram. There’s a lot of encrypted channels, but there’s also some leaderless decentralised protests. They’re less established than, sort of like, the political pathways. It’s not with organisations, like syndicates or other political parties, because again, they’ve been eroded. They’re more reactive, they’re less – they’re more about, like I said, economic grievances, they’re less revolutionary on a meta level, they’re reactive, right-based and – to the events that are happening.
There’s also a cross-class participation. We find precarious graduates, we find marginalised peri-urban youth who also want to have their demands, so there is that unified sense of – I would – I don’t want to say despair, but really grievances among Gen – youngsters. There have been movements, there have been protests in 2023/24 about the cost of living. There have been protests in Gabès, as you mentioned, it’s against the institutional pollution and the toxic gas emissions that the region has been dealing with for decades with failure from governments.
And these protests are interesting because they’re also – they’re – they are about, sort of, environmental justice, but they also have metamorphosed into a rejection of status quo. So, even youngsters who do not really have a channel to express their dissent, they have joined in, because this is a mobilised, organised, clear messaging protest that goes against the current failure of the government and the refusal to acknowledge it. So, we have many youngsters who have actually moved from other cities to Gabes, and unfortunately, the government has securitised these grievances. So, instead of looking at them as demands for environmental justice, they’re being framed as conspiracies and being framed as, sort of, threats to public order. I guess I will speak in the next phase about how the government could…
Hayder Al-Shakeri
Hmmm.
Mondher Tounsi
…or should respond to these, but this is, sort of, the general context to the situation that is happening right now.
Hayder Al-Shakeri
Thank you. Thank you very much, Mondher, and thank you for creating the context for us and putting us into that image where, you know, you walked us through from the Arab Spring until today, and how young people are situating themselves into the scene. Merissa, over to you, and maybe you can – you listened to both Nissrine and Mondher, and how they talked about both their experiences, but the experiences of their generation.
Merissa Khurma
Hmmm hmm.
Hayder Al-Shakeri
You just came back from Morocco, you’ve been, you know, looking at these trends, you’ve been seeing, you know, some of these approaches for over a year now. Are there any trends? They’re very different countries, very different contexts, but also…
Merissa Khurma
Hmmm hmm.
Hayder Al-Shakeri
…I’m sure there are things that you’re seeing while you were, you know, studying this. Are there any trends between the two countries, but also, North Africa generally? Please go ahead.
Merissa Khurma
Thank you. Thanks, Hayder, and thanks to Chatham House for hosting this discussion. I also want to thank both Nissrine and Mondher for being here and speaking up and helping us understand the dynamics at play. There are absolutely trends that need to be, I think, watched very closely and better understood. My point of departure, when I’ve started looking at this generation, was basically, my online consumption, you know, my social media consumption. It was very interesting to see how Gen Z is, basically, expressing their opinions online, and I primarily, you know, in 2024 and particularly last year, was looking at how they were responding to the war in Gaza.
But then you shou – then there were other trends, you know, being picked up, because at times of tension and times of, you know, just anger and frustration in general, all the other issues also rise to the top. And that, sometimes it, you know, it takes one trigger, in the case of Morocco, the death of eight women in the hospital that really triggered it, you know, maybe similarly in Tunisia, you know, going back to the Jasmine Res – Revolution with Mohamed Bouazizi. So, there’s always some, sort of, trigger.
But I think what was most interesting looking in at the – just the digitisation of this generation is that we really do not understand this generation because we’re from different generations. You know, I’m a, you know, a Generation X/Millennial, and have not had the same interaction, the same level of comfort, you know, in the digital spaces as this generation, particularly with social media. It’s not so much, you know, being online, but rather learning and interacting, and as both Nissrine and Mondher mentioned, mobilising and organising online.
So, I think in a region, and I will add here the Levant, because some of these trends we are most likely going to see also in the Levant, ‘cause the grievances are the same, very much go back to the underlying drivers of the first wave of uprisings that we saw in 2010 and 2011. It is very much about governance, and it’s really about basic services that people are expecting. So, you know, Nissrine and Mondher mentioned ‘health’ and ‘education’ and ‘jobs,’ and I think those are the three that ultimately, will continue to top the agendas of – or of the grievances of this young generation, because they’re – they are at the receiving end of either lack of reform or failed policies or neglect at worst, right?
And I think, of course, each country has its own dynamic at play, and perhaps in the case of Morocco, there have been – we’ve seen, like, an ebb and flow in the unemployment rate. But when you zoom into the youth unemployment rates across the region, it tops 30%, and that’s Middle East and North Africa, and that is a very worrisome trend. So, understanding this generation and how they interact is key, and I think going back to how the government responded in both Tunisia and Morocco, we have to perhaps learn, and I’m curious to see – to hear what Mondher has to say as to how can governments actually communicate with youth? Because there is no dialogue, there are no channels of communication, and that is absolutely missing across the board.
The second issue, which both our speakers alluded to, goes back to some of the key research I was doing in the last, you know, six to seven years focused on workforce developments. These asymmetries in the workforce development space remain the same. There are educational institutions and higher educational institutions that function, but there is absolutely no link to the job market, and Nissrine alluded to this with the skills gap. There’s a mismatch because there’s also no co-ordination or communication between the private sector and educational institutions, whether they’re public or private.
There are, of course, exceptions to this, but the workforce landscape and the economy is changing very quickly because it is digitised, because there are also so many skills that are completely irrelevant, others are becoming more relevant. And we’re not necessarily seeing the education systems reform fast enough, or at least, you know, recalibrate, in order to connect with the market needs, and so this is something that we’re going to have to see governments pay attention to.
I think with healthcare, in particular, I mean, this is the most basic human service that anyone in the region or anyone around the world should have access to, and there has been a deterioration, and I’ve heard this from some of the Moroccan youth that I talked to. They said, you know, “This is a very basic human right. Without health services, we cannot live,” and so, this is really at the heart of it. And it was a bit surprising to see this level of deterioration in the health sector, because the pandemic was a wake-up call to many countries in the region, but if you look at the allocation of the budget, it’s, you know, it’s between six to 8%, which it should be much higher, given the challenges that we see in the public health system, especially when you go outside to more rural areas where the impact is worst. So, again, it is going back to, sort of, the same driving forces, these underlying challenges and grievances that are at the heart of governance and that we saw trigger these waves.
And the last point I want to make is about the contagion effect. So, there were actually a number of calls for protests in Algeria, as well, and Algeria is also experiencing the same challenges, you know, from unemployment to education issues and a lot of grievances about corruption, as well. But also, beyond that, what was very interesting is that Discord in Morocco was one of the social media platforms that was used for organising, and I confirmed that with some of the youth I spoke to in Tangier. And then we saw, for example, in Jordan, Discord reportedly being disconnected just about a few days or a few weeks after the protests in Morocco took place. So, I think this is – it’s something to watch out for, because it might be a quick fix to sort of, you know, lower the temperature for now, but unless these grievances are addressed, we are going to see more and more protests take place elsewhere, not just in North Africa. And I’ll stop right there.
Hayder Al-Shakeri
Thank you. Thank you very much, Merissa, and I think you touched upon some very important points here, but I want to come back to you on this – these – some of these points. We talked about, you know, some of the reactions by certain governments and maybe other governments, as well. So, clearly, you know, governments are watching each other and they’re learning from each other, but do you think there were any lessons learned from the Arab Spring, since, you know, it’s been more than a decade ago, by governments? So, some of these governments, you know, they came to power after the Arab Spring, and some of them, you know, they were part of the Arab Spring, they had similar demands to, you know, the protesters’ demands. And then what should those governments consider in order to address demands of, you know, of their population, especially younger people? Are there any, you know, lessons or trends that we can look at in both countries, but also, you know, in the region generally?
Merissa Khurma
That’s a really good question, and I think that’s a question that we need to ask all these regional governments to answer. But I think the – I think what we’ve seen evolve, particularly that many of the countries that have witnessed initially peaceful, non-violent protests – which by the way, this is a very important element of these protests, the non-violence component was key. And when you look at all the social media calls, it all says, “[Mother tongue] This is a non-violent protest,” which is a really smart and strategic, but also a very important component to understand that there’s – you know, this is really about expression.
But one – but going back to the governments and the lessons learnt. Because we’ve seen Syria, Yemen, Libya, in particular, essentially, still living in an unstable situation, you know, lingering, a limbo, you know, conflict/post-conflict situation, I think that this is one message that you’re going to hear from a lot of leaders in the region, “Well, do you want war or do you want stability? We’re here to provide stability, and the way to do it is through strengthening security.” I don’t think that this is the message that’s going to work with this generation, because they need to be engaged.
And one thing that I’ve noticed in my just, you know, brief assessment of how they engage online is that they really are very – I mean, I think Mondher mentioned it, it’s very – they’re very rights-based. So, they care about issues of justice and transparency and accountability, and they want a seat at the table. They believe that they are agents of change themselves. They’re not afraid of change. In fact, they are seeking change because they are, you know, part of this generation that has seen so many changes on the digital space, and so, they’re more comfortable with change. And that’s a reality that I think a lot of the governments have to reckon with, so this dialogue is important.
I think another message we heard from governments is that, you know, “It’s all about evolution, not revolution,” you know, this is the – “reform is an evolutionary process.” 100%, and I think this was part of the response of the Moroccan Government, and Nissrine perhaps can talk about it, because they did promise reforms, but they – but it’s not happening, you know, fast enough. And if it is happening, and if it does happen, it’s really piecemeal and then you, sort of, go back and then just maintain this minimum state of stability.
So, it’s going to be, you know, I think, very interesting moving forward, but I would say that with the adaptive nature of this generation, you know, authoritarianism in general is also adaptive, because it’s been using its own tactics to also suppress dissent by, you know, disconnecting this service, or as Mondher mentioned, criminalising activity online. So, it’s the go-to – you know, these are the go-to tactics that they are aware of, and perhaps to, sort of, keep, you know, things in check that may work in the short-term, but I don’t see it working in the long-term.
And I think it’s important to note there are governments in the region that are genuinely working towards job creation and reforming, and these processes are very difficult. Having worked on some of these reform projects myself, it’s really, really difficult, because the way these governments are set up are also pretty archaic. So, we need to look at all of these different dynamics. Over to you.
Hayder Al-Shakeri
Thank you very much, Merissa, and I think also it’s about communications, a clear communications to people, and this is part of the – sort of, the social contract between citizens and their states. Nissrine, maybe we’ll come to you, and just before that, I want to remind our participants who are joining us online, if you have any questions for our speakers, please do type them down in the chat, in the Q&A function below, and we’ll get to those in a bit.
But Nissrine, maybe we come to you, and Merissa talked about some of the responses by governments, and we’re seeing in Morocco, for example, there has been promises, you know, to address some of the demands by the protesters. Is this enough and is this, sort of, changing the nature of the agreement and the social contract between societies, specifically young people and the state?
Nissrine Ait Haji
Hi. So, I mean, like, I think before I answer your question, I think it’s very important to understand the broader environment. Gen Z is not a ge – is a generation that’s grew up exposed to everything, so information, injustice, inequality, governance, failures, and we compare, we analyse, we do not wait quietly. We want respect, clarity and sincerity, and it is. Basically, building up on what Merissa said, we want to feel – I mean, Gen Z want to feel like their voice matters, and violence does not work with this generation. [Inaudible – 35:14] does not work with the gen – with this generation, dialogue does.
And I think that – I mean, we’ve seen government respond, there were budget allocations, there were promises, but like, as Merissa said, it is not happening. You know, like – and it is also something very common about Moroccans, you know, like, something that should be done today should be done today. Why would you wait for tomorrow in order to do it? But this runs through our veins I think as – I mean, I don’t want to say – I don’t want to speak in general, but this runs in our veins, where – runs in our veins whatsoever, and I think that the challenge today is not choosing between development and youth expectations but aligning them.
Morocco is moving on so many fronts, as I said, we are proud of it, but what this moment showed is that ambition abroad must progress at the same speed as dignity at home. And it also starts with acknowledging a simple reality, which is trust is built when reforms happen on time, before a crisis, not after it. So, you know, we reacted so strongly because we felt that those tragedies could have been pre – you know, avoided. These gaps should have been addressed a long time ago, and this is why accountability became such a central theme. But if we want real progress, we also have to be honest about something else, which is, as I said, this is not only about institutions, it is also about behaviours. And I say this as someone who is living – you know, who has – transition is very hard.
It’s very hard to adapt to the Moroccan mentality, whether at work, etc., because you have extraordinary people who give everything, and sometimes they have to balance out be – the work that, you know, some people are supposed to – like, you see shortcuts, you see inconsistency, lack of discipline, and as I said earlier, basic, like, lack of integrity. And this is – this basically, affects how policies are implemented on the ground. We cannot ignore that, and, you know, the government has a dual responsibility, it is to improve institutions, yes, but it is also to encourage a cultural shift in how we work, how we treat public resources, how we hold ourselves accountable, because young people are already doing this in our way.
Now, from the state side, as I said, the response we saw after the protests, so increased budgets, emergency measures, they opened the open – like the [inaudible – 37:38] in Agadir, for instance, it was ready. We – like, change is possible when urgency happens. The lesson I think is to make that urgency permanent, you know. Health and education cannot and should not be treated as reactive sectors. You know, if we can mobilise thousands of workers to build stadiums in record time, the same energy can be applied to hospitals and schools. And I’m not saying that they’re not being made, they are, you know, we see change concretely, but as long as people’s mentality doesn’t change, I think it’s always going to be hard.
And another key element that the government did was to actually include Gen Z, you know. So, like, in the past months, we saw young people invited to speak in national television and seeing the government engage publicly with their concern. We saw the way – the Mini – the He – like, Health Minister speak and acknowledge that we see – like, basically, they are saying, “We see what you’re talking about.” I think it was a bit reckless of them to do it now, you know, it should have happened before, before the tragedies happened, but they are doing – like, they are basically, trying to show that they are listening and trying to change things. But I think it’s very important to include youth, you know, we don’t want to only monitor. You know, like, we want to monitor, we want to follow-up, we want to be part of the decision-making process. We want to be a part of the solution, not only people who protest when something goes wrong.
And I want to insist on this, as I said, Moroccans are not anti-state, we are not anti-system. We love our King, we love our monarchy and we love our country. But I think it’s very important to – you know, we’re doing so well on so many fronts, we have to keep the momentum, but we have to match it with basic services, fairness and transparency. And, you know, some people are still in prison. ‘FreeKoulchi’ is still a demand you see on social media. For true reconciliation to progress, I believe accountability should also be accompanied with de-escalation, you know. This is how you rebuild trust. And it is – you know, like, we should also recognise that not everyone starts from the same point. A lot of Moroccans do not have the same access to education or literacy or information or digital skills, so we cannot expect the same level of political sophistication or economic understanding from everyone. So, like, if you see it from economic perspective, we’re doing so well, not everyone understands that.
So, I think part of balancing priorities is also investing in people, not just in infrastructure, and I think that’s practically what it looks like. It – you know, it means sustaining growth with – and corre – like, and correlate with social stability. It means designing policies with youth, not just for them. It means speeding up, you know, essential reforms with the same urgency we apply to international projects, and I can see it – I’m in Agadir, I can see people – you know…
Hayder Al-Shakeri
Hmmm hmm.
Nissrine Ait Haji
…like the stadium is supposed to be built. You know, we can put a lot of resources in projects because it’s urgent. I think we should treat those same demands as, you know, as urgent. And at the end of the day, it is not about slowing down development to please the youth, or about ignoring the youth to push development. It is about making them work together, and I believe that if we get that balance right, the country, I mean, I speak about Morocco, will not only move forward, because it is moving forward, but it will move forward very strong. And I mean, as we said – as Merissa said, we are just asking for sincerity, clarity and a real place at the table.
Hayder Al-Shakeri
Thank you very much, Nissrine, and I think – I was speaking to an Algerian colleague a few weeks ago, and in Algeria they have a Council of Youth, or a Higher Council of Youth, and it is, you know, a seat at the table. But it’s a checkbox and a formality rather than, you know, a real, sort of, you know, a decision-making process that includes young people. So, also, we need to be careful when we talk about “a seat at the table,” what does that mean and how, you know, formalised or how important that is.
Nissrine Ait Haji
Right.
Hayder Al-Shakeri
Mondher, to you, I think Merissa was talking about how, you know, the adapts – that adaptation happening, you know, in countries like Tunis, where, you know, the governments themselves are adapting to citizens’ demands, but to the protest itself and the authoritarian system is adapting. How do you see this balance happening, you know, between the governments, you know, responding to citizens’ demands when it comes to development, when it comes to accountability, but also, when it comes to, you know, oppressing or suppressing those actions?
Mondher Tounsi
I think the state is being reactive, but in a counterintuitive way, because opening the pathway for youth to actually criticise their demands means deep structural reforms that they are not willing to change because it’s very intrinsic within the nature of the state itself. There is a need for transparency and especially less arbitrary governance, that is the biggest demand from young people. They need to have a sense of trust, and that equals reducing a lot of the repression and creating a safe space for expression of dissent. And that is happening on a macro level, you know, even outside of youth with what we’re seeing with political opponents and all of that.
Unfortunately, and Merissa alluded to this, there are a lot of short-term programmes, there’s a lot of alleviation of the temperature at the current moment that does not translate to real economic structural reforms. The policies need to be targeted, and they need to be also structural and have impact on daily life, which Nissrine also spoke about. This means reforms concerning transportation, education, the cost of living, access to opportunities and unemployment. And to be honest, I would actually say that is even more important than the macro-political developments. I think a lot of foreign press and foreign institutions focus a lot on the repression of human rights, and that is absolutely important, but when it comes to the youth of everyday life, their actual direct needs of economic liberation really comes first.
There are also the questions of inclusion of youth in decision-making processes, whether it’s through digital platforms or civil society organisations, which also requires the liberation and the easing of crackdown on these civil society organisations, which at one point were one of the platforms through which youth engaged, whether directly or indirectly, through intermediaries with the government. There’s less policing, of course, and just overall longstanding institutional reforms that are not reactionary, that are not ad hoc, that do not securitize these grievances by young people. And obviously, there are much bigger questions into the nature of the regime, but I think that is – we take it into a bigger discussion, other than just Gen Z, for the moment.
Hayder Al-Shakeri
Thank you very much, Mondher. Now we’re coming to some of the questions in the Q&A, and I’m going to, you know, put some together, but also ask some directly from the chat, and this is maybe for you, Merissa. Natalie is asking, “To what extent are economic pressures, particularly issues like unemployment and inflation, are shaping Gen Z narratives more than ideological factors?” So, I don’t know if you have been seeing some of these trends in your research, in your observations.
Merissa Khurma
I think they’re actually very connected, because of course, there are basic economic needs. You know, the youth, when they graduate, they need a job in order to start a family. There are also sociocultural pressures. You’re – now you’re graduated, you have to find a job, then after the job, you start a family, like, you know, that’s part of, also, the cultural narrative across the region. But I think they see it very much in terms of the lens of economic justice/injustice, so it is very much rights-based in that sense, that, you know, I see the income gaps, it’s visible in this country, it’s visible in this city, and why is it so difficult to find a job? You know, in my travels to the region, and, like, this past summer, I was in Jordan for a few weeks and took many, many Ubers, and all of these Drivers were young graduates that were graduates in engineering, architecture, and were not able to find jobs, neither in Jordan, nor in the region. So, it’s becoming also more difficult to find jobs across the region.
So, I think – and so – and again, like, what I heard is, “Well, it’s just so unfair.” So, the ‘fairness’ question and the ‘injustice’ question is very much linked with these economic pressures. And so, it’s really hard to say that it’s one versus the other, because I think the way that this particular generation has evolved is very much focused on – again, what we’ve heard from Nissrine and Mondher and what I mentioned, it’s very much focused on justice, accountability, transparency, open communications, and inclusion. They want to be included.
Hayder Al-Shakeri
Thank you, yeah, very clear, and now both Thomas and Olivia are asking different questions, but I’ll try to merge them together and, you know, throw them both at Nissrine and Mondher, starting with Nissrine. So, Thomas is asking about the “role of gender in the Gen Z protests,” so – both in composition of protesters, but also the issues on the agenda. Is that a thing? Is – are people talking about gender? Is it, you know, is it separate between men and women, or is it, you know, a whole social issue as a generation overall? And Olivia is asking about the “rights-based demands.” So, when it comes to “democratisation,” for example, “is it something that young people are asking for? Is it – you know, are they asking rights-based demands and calling for rights-based approaches, or is it more about the economic grievances?” And this is – also goes to the question that we talked about earlier.
But let’s start with Nissrine and then maybe to Mondher.
Nissrine Ait Haji
I mean, as Merissa said, I truly believe that it is not, you know, like, one versus the other. I think it’s – you know, they’re both combined when it comes to, you know, basic human rights and also, economic inclusion. I don’t want to be, like, really – it’s like, I can’t stress this enough, but, you know, like, I work, for example, in a company where, you know, like, you have [inaudible – 48:49]. People are still being paid 100 dirhams per day, you know, and these people – these same people have, like – they have studied – like, they have master’s and they are still being paid 100 dirhams per day. So, this is the reality of not everyone, but a lot – a majority of the people. The cost of living are rising. How do you expect young people to raise family with 4,000 dirhams, for example, for a month?
So, I think, as Merissa said, it is not one versus the other, but – and when it comes – I think when it comes to the gender, we’ve seen in the comment sections, you know, like, women being, you know, like, women being met with violence, for instance, we saw women being courageous enough, and I think that it was not really about gender this time. I mean, like, these protests were about, we all share the same struggles, when it – whether it comes, you know, like, in – when it – whether it comes to health in – I mean, whether it comes to health or education, we all do share the same struggles.
We did stress – like – ‘cause I don’t know if you hear the stories, I don’t want to really criticise what is happening in Morocco in public hospitals, but, you know, pregnant women in public hospitals are being met with violence, you know. My sister, for instance, is studying medicine in the UK, and whenever she would come home and do, like, a small internship in public, you know, hospital, she would be – you know, like, she would be shocked at, like, at what she would see. The way they treat women, the way – it is not a general – like, it’s not general – like, this does not reflect our health education, but there was, like – there were demands for integrity and basic respect for all genders, basically.
Hayder Al-Shakeri
Thank you. Thank you, Nissrine, and yeah, I think that’s also the observation that others had, that, you know, social issues are, you know, across the spectrum, but of course, it’s impacting women sometimes even more because of the culture and society. Mondher, may – do you have any comments on these both issues, particularly, you know, maybe the ‘gender’ question? But also, I want to throw something else at you from Giuseppo – Giuseppe, and he’s asking – they’re asking about the – “What did the restrictions on the freedom of speech in Tunisia add to the current protest? Did they impact the current protests or not?”
Mondher Tounsi
Yes, I will loop this question with a question about ‘democratisation’ and if that’s actually included in the demands. As I said, the landscape currently in Tunisia is extremely bizarre and it’s extremely diluted, which means that there are – there aren’t – like, there’s no rules to the game currently. And young people are trying to situate themselves within the landscape that they can find themselves in, which means we have dispersed attempts at different levels of demands. And also, it depends on the demographic that we’re talking about. You know, we have young activists, we have Lawyers, we have, sort of, engaged people who are directly speaking against injustice and against the oppression of the state. There was a big protest last week, for example, in which a prominent name was arrested, so that is – that targets a specific, you know, lens of being, sort of, an anti-regime stance.
But in many other cases, which also is a bit difficult because we’ve seen many attempts to repress young people, many have been jailed, many are in pretrial detention, so people are trying to qualify in the way in which they present the guarantees that they have and how they can show up in the streets safely. We have other incidents, for example, in Gabès, which is about environmental justice, but we have different components of the angle of people within that. So, you have people from Gabès who are rising up because they’re seeing their relatives being suffocated from the toxic gas emissions. So, it’s an expression of dissent against this injustice, but you also have other youngsters who are coming because this is against the current status quo.
So, you can have different interpretations against what these protests represent, but the way I see them is that people are trying in the current landscape to just really find their footings. They’re trying to understand the system, the ways in which they can play with an unpredictable regime that is really not communicating with them but also playing chess in – on a bigger landscape. So, yes, the restrictions on freedom of speech have increasingly created a hostile environment, the rules of the game are diluted, and youngsters are trying whichever way they can to express their dissent in dilapidating circumstances.
Hayder Al-Shakeri
Thank you, Mondher, and now, you know, the final question I’ll ask to Merissa, and then, we’ll go to Mondher and Nissrine for any final comments, and there are also – I’m going to combine two questions here. Laika’s asking, “What do the current protests tell us about the state of the social contract in North Africa 14 years after the so-called Arab Spring?” And then Yoris is asking, “Could the Gen Z protests in North Africa trigger an Arab Spring style regime changes, like, in the next – in the years to come?” So, Merissa, over to you, maybe you can tell us…
Merissa Khurma
Sure.
Hayder Al-Shakeri
…if you have predictions on these issues.
Merissa Khurma
Yeah. I will definitely not predict anything, ‘cause it’s very difficult to predict. But I think, you know, going back to the social contract, we have seen some tweaks to certain economic policies, you know, political reforms with regards to political parties, party laws, quotas being added here and there, across the board, not just in North Africa. I think Tunisia will be the exception because that was a very, you know, monumental change. But I think the social contract itself, the way that it’s been set up, has not really shifted, and we haven’t seen too many openings for dialogue and communication that I think started – that the Arab uprisings, kind of, encouraged in the beginning, but then it definitely died down. Because there were also other pressing crises that took place, that, you know, countries in the region had to grapple with.
So, like, in North Africa, you know, Libya was in a state of war and that impacted neighbouring countries, and I think, you know, similarly in the Levant with the Syrian civil war and how it impacted, you know, neighbouring countries with refugee flows, etc. So, yeah, I don’t think that it has shifted all that much. I always try to look at the glass half full to, you know, find these inspiring stories in the region, and I think, as Nissrine mentioned, there’s a lot of good stuff happening. There’s a generation that also wants to try to be more entrepreneurial, and I think that is very encouraging, given that mindsets of previous generations were all about stable jobs in the public sector.
So, like, there are some positive features, of course, but there’s a lot more that has to happen, and it’s really difficult to predict another wave of regime change. I think that we will see more protests because this generation is not going to sit and wait for things to happen. They want to be part of that change.
Hayder Al-Shakeri
Thank you. Thank you very much. Mondher, what do you have to say on the state of the social contract in Tunis? Is it – has it changed since the Arab Spring, and is it something that, you know, young people are okay with right now, or do they demand that it gets updated?
Mondher Tounsi
I think there’s, I think, a wrong lesson that some have took from the experience of the Arab Spring, which is that political reforms equals instability, unpredictability and openness of an – a market of idea that decentralises and creates an unpredictable future. As long as the current socioeconomic agreements are not met, that does not matter, which is what Merissa has spoken about. I think the social contract did not actually change. It’s just the form in which it found itself has adapted. I think young people are still calling for dignity, they’re still calling for prosperity on a personal wellbeing when it comes to their daily lives, and that is still happening.
However, I do agree that there are features of young people that are admirable, that they are entrepreneurial, they’re trying to be creative within the landscape they found themselves in. They are more defiant, so they’re also not accepting the status quo and they’re trying to, sort of, express their dissent in whichever way they can. And I think the actual demands are still the same but with a different context. So, who knows what’s going to happen, but I do think they’re going to – still going to try to mobilise and try to create change for their lives in whichever form they can.
Hayder Al-Shakeri
Thank you very much, Mondher. Nissrine, to end with your notes. As an entrepreneur, maybe you have something to say on these issues, but also on the social contract in Morocco.
Nissrine Ait Haji
I mean, I think that it is something very specific about this generation, it is that we are not – I think – I mean, I believe we are not really afraid of anything, because we saw people achieve the unachievable on social media. So, I think that there is this – we’re not as scared as our – as the previous generation as they were as, like – we are not scared of risking, you know? And I think it’s very special about this generation, it is a generation that is not afraid to speak, it is a generation that is aware of everything happening, and I think that we learnt from other countries.
So, like, I think – I’m not, like, I’m not going to predict revolutions happening, but I think that what is happening recently has maybe pushed the governments to actually negotiate, even the governments that, like, that have never thought of it. Because there is actually a pattern of repeated and localised eruptions that are happening and that oblige states to actually renegotiate, and, like, to negotiate parts of the social contract. More transparency will happen, better service, you know, better service delivery.
And I think someone asked in the comments, will we have – you know, using social –you know, Discord, etc., if people, you know, take office? I think that’s – like, it’s very important to know that we are a very analytical and data-driven generation. We see the news as they happen, and I think that’s – it is something that should be implemented in a government, is to react – you know, like, to anticipate rather than solve problems with urgencies. So, what is possible and already visible, like, as I said, I won’t predict revolution, but I will say that ignoring the structural pressures that Gen Z faces, economic, social, and digital, as Merissa said, is far more riskier than states that acknowledge in integrating them.
Hayder Al-Shakeri
Thank you. Thank you very much, Nissrine, and thank you to all of our speakers, our participants, and to Chatham House for having us. My main takeaway from this discussion is that, you know, the social contract is changing, is shifting, is adapting. Governments and societies need to adapt with it, and, you know, young people, they need to be included. It’s not that, you know, they – it’s an option. It ha – they have to be part of the decision-making process, and as Nissrine and Mondher mentioned, you know, these protests in these countries are just an indicator of what needs to happen. And Merissa’s analysis also showing us the trends from across the region really, you know, highlighted this.
Thank you, everyone, and we hope to see you at next events at Chatham House. Thank you.
Merissa Khurma
Thank you.
Mondher Tounsi
Thank you.
