Iraq and its Role in the Region

Sir Simon Fraser

Good morning ladies and gentlemen. I’m Simon Fraser. I’m the Deputy Chair of Chatham House. It’s my pleasure and privilege to welcome you all here this morning, and in particular, to welcome His Excellency, President Salih who’s going to address us very shortly. If you will forgive me for a second, I’ll just make a couple of administrative announcements. First, to say this address and the Q&A after it are on the record, so this is not under the Chatham House Rule. This meeting is part of the excellent Chatham House Iraq Initiatives, which is a series of events that have been put together around different aspects of Iraq, and thank you very much for supporting that programme. It is possible for you to tweet on this event using the hashtag #CHEvents. Could I please encourage you all to have your phones on silent and if you have any questions or issues, there are Chatham House staff, around the back of the room, who can help you.

It’s a real pleasure to welcome President Salih. In fact, he’s not a stranger to Chatham House. He’s been here many times before, and of course, he’s not a stranger to this country. He’s studied here. He’s lived here. Ge’s a great friend of the country, and he has, I know, many friends in this audience. It’s a great pleasure to welcome you, sir. He is, of course, the President of Iraq, has been the President of Iraq since 2018, but has a long and distinguished career in Iraqi politics. Ge was Deputy Prime Minister of Iraq. He was also the Prime Minister of the Kurdistan Regional Government, so he has a depth and wealth of experience to share with us. He’s going to address us today for ten to 15 minutes, on different aspects of Iraq’s regional relations, regional role and of course, the Domestic, Political, Economic and Security Agenda in Iraq and then we will have a Q&A session, which I will attempt to moderate. Without further ado, welcome, Your Excellency, and I invite you to the podium [applause].

Barham Salih

Thank you, Simon, and I’m truly honoured to be at Chatham House again. I have been to this institution many, many times in the past and I have learnt a lot from the deliberations and conversations that have taken place in this building, and I hope today’s conversation about Iraq and the neighbourhood will be useful. I come to you from Baghdad with a message. First and foremost, an affirmation of our commitment to improving our relations with the United Kingdom, a very important partner to Iraq, in the war against terror, an important partner to Iraq, in our effort to reconstruct our country. And acknowledging also Britain’s influence and role in the world, we look to improving our understandings on regional issues and working together to making sure that Iraq’s stability and security is preserved, as well as peace in the Middle East is maintained.

I come to you with also a message saying, Iraq continues to be in transition. I’m not here to tell people that all is good in Iraq. I want to tell people things are improving in Iraq and we have still some way to go before things will be good and will be to a standard that the Iraqi people deserve. For sure, Iraqi people deserve a far better situation than they are in today. But if I were to compare the situation of Iraq today to a year ago, to four years ago, to ten years ago, there is definitely improvement in the overall dynamics of the country. And perhaps, for the first time in a long, long time, the trajectory of events in Iraq is positive, some of us would like this improvement to be faster, to be more assertive, but given the context that we are dealing with, this improvement in Iraqi dynamics is tangible, serious, significant and cannot be underestimated.

The progress in Iraq really need to be put in the context of transition, not since 2003, I always say and remind people that Iraq has been in a state of turmoil, at least since 1979 when Saddam Hussein came to power, the Iraq Iran war, the invasion of Kuwait, the sanctions of 2003, the onslaught of terrorism. This is four decades of hell, four decades of challenges and difficulties that Iraqi society has gone through. We need to put things in context. Iraq has been dealing with this turmoil, with these wars, repression, genocide, sanctions for four decades. Perhaps no other society in the world would have been able to tolerate and deal with this the way that Iraqis have had. So, measuring the process in Iraq really has to be put in that context, not to be judgmental about it and not to be too idealistic either. But one thing for sure again, the message from Baghdad is that Iraqis want to make it happen. Iraqis do not want to go back to the ways of the past and we certainly do not want to be embroiled in yet another war, in another conflict on our territory.

It is fair for Iraqis to assert that the national interest of their country comes first, and instead of wars being fought on our territory, with our resources and with our lives. We do want to commit our resources to the reconstruction of our country and really move beyond what we have been condemned to, at least over the last four decades. The success in Iraq needs to be focused on certainly the war against ISIS, was quite an achievement, not to be underestimated. The territorial defeat of ISIS is significant. They are important, not just for Iraq, but for the entire neighbourhood and for the world. Four or five years ago ISIS was in control over one-third of Iraqi territory. Today, ISIS is no longer in control of territory, and I’m using my words carefully. I say territorial defeat of ISIS. I’m not saying the end of ISIS, ‘cause ISIS and extremist groups like ISIS continue to operate in Syria. There are remnants of these groups that want to come back together. I say to ourselves, but I say also to the world, we need to cherish the success in the war against terror, but also not to squander it, not to take it for granted. We need to consolidate it and we need to make sure this success, this military success is crowned with a comprehensive success that will seek the eradication of violent extremism.

In this war against ISIS, Iraqis were in the forefront, paid dearly for this victory, but this would not have been possible, without the support of our friends in the International Coalition led by the United States, and with active participation of the United Kingdom, a contribution that we really appreciate and acknowledge and is important. The politics of Iraq, from afar it looks very messy, and it is messy. It’s fragmented. When we look at British politics, you never have a dull moment here, essentially, these days. I can assure you, Iraqi politics is also like that, but it’s moving along. Two days ago, Parliament in Iraq has approved or endorsed appointment of a Minister of Interior, a Minister of Defence and a Minister of Justice. The three of them are professionals and do not come from specific political parties and are coming from the institutions, and it is giving credence to the claim that the present Iraqi Government is moving to becoming more of a technocratic professional institution than just one that is dominated by political factions and abused by them per se. I’m not saying that there is no political leverage in the Government, of course there is, this is a parliamentary democracy and all of these political factions and groups, parliamentary blocks do have influence and leverage. But I think there is a priority for the Government to really deliver on basic services and deliver on basic security for the community.

Talking of security, one of the major challenges before us is to really make sure that the institutions of security are developed and institutionalised, within the state that no arms – the monopoly over arms will be with the state. All military elements need to be commanded by the Commander-in-Chief, which is in accordance to our constitution, our Prime Minister. There are continuing conversations about some “groups that may fall outside that domain,” and namely in the Hashti Shabi people, I want to say specifically and directly to that. Hashti Shabi played an important role in against – in the war against Daesh, together with the Peshmergas, together with the Iraqi military and the Police really were instrumental in defeating ISIS. But as we institutionalise our security services, there is a law that is applied, that needs to be applied fully and definitively as well, to making sure all groups abide by the same command and control of the Iraqi security services, as I said.

This is work in progress, and recently, I convened a meeting of the major Iraqi political leaders, together with the Prime Minister and the Speaker of Parliament, in which this point has been asserted. And in that context, we have also agreed specifically that the presence of coalition forces in Iraq needs to be put in proper context, and this is a state policy, they are there and the invitation of the Iraqi Government, for the sole mission of combatting or empowering the Iraqi forces to combat terrorism. And all political factions of Iraq, all political groupings of Iraq have endorsed this policy and furthermore, we have also asserted the fact that arms needs to be monopolised by the state, any groups that will act outside the state will be treated as an outlaw and the state will have to take it on. I’m not saying, again, in the context of transitioning Iraq this will be done overnight, but this is seriously looked at as an important national priority. We cannot afford our country to be dragged into conflict by internal actors, undisciplined or otherwise, or by outside powers, and I’ll come to that at a later stage.

The other major challenge for the Iraqi Government and for the Iraqi institution is the economy. Iraq’s population today is 38 million and is increasing by one million a year, just give you the scale of the challenge that we’re dealing with. Today, we need 12,000 new school buildings, today. New school buildings, I’m not talking about renovating or existing school buildings. We have a young population. Nearly 70% of our population is below the age of 30. Our education system has real, real problems and challenges, in order to equip and train people to compete in present day job markets. Unemployment is becoming a major, major social and political and security issue for Iraq, and I would say for the neighbourhood as well as the world. We need to regenerate our economy and regenerating an economy that is essentially a welfare state, and that is essentially dependent on oil and revenues, it’s not easy. In a country that has gone through 40 years of conflict, with a bureaucracy that some of you, who work in Iraq, can appreciate the difficulties that the Iraqi democracy pose to economic regeneration. I’m just merely describing to you the kind of challenges we have to deal with.

But I want to say this is a top priority for us, for the Government and we will be soon, I hope, with Parliament reconvening in the fall. We intend to submit a major legislation on a Reconstruction and Investment Commission that will try to create an investment environment, a legal environment for foreign direct investment into Iraq and private sector investment for major infrastructure work. Because at the end of the day, jobs will be created by major infrastructure work, and without it, I don’t think not now and not in ten years’ time, Iraqi revenues will be able to pay for the needs of the Iraqi population.

At the end of the day, like in Britain, like in America, like anywhere else in the world, is about jobs and in our case, it’s about jobs for young people. This is the social challenge and – that we are all faced with, not just in Iraq, but across the Middle East. This is one of the key components that is required for prosperity for our countries, for social peace, but also, for combatting violent extremism. These unemployable youth are the recruits for these fanatics that terrorise our populations, but also knock on the doors of the Europeans and Americans and others.

Regenerating Iraq’s economy will be quite a challenge, but we are intent on it. We are serious about it and there will be an oil conference, I think, tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. Our Minister of Oil will be here and will be talking about some of the important initiatives that we’re doing, in terms of restructuring the oil sector. Some new major partnership with major international oil companies that will see to the development of the Iraqi oil sector. But hopefully, with added value of creating the industries and the job opportunities for our youth, is not – should not be just about generating revenues, but it also should be part of an overall programme that will see to developing the economy in other sectors as well. The economic regeneration of Iraq will also be important, in terms of our neighbours, in terms of our relations with our neighbourhoods.

For the last four decades, at least for the last four decades, maybe more, Iraq has been a place where it has been social problems and challenges for the Middle East. It has been a place where almost everybody had a proxy to fight for a certain agenda. We truly want to transform Iraq’s dynamic from a zone of conflict, from a zone of proxy conflict, from a zone of regional competition between our neighbours, into a zone of common economic and security interest. And Iraq’s geography offers us the opportunity to do this through infrastructure work, pipelines, railway systems, highway systems, trade zones, etc., and so on. And Iraq is uniquely placed to be the bridge between the economies of the Gulf and Europe, between all our neighbours for inter – for trade across the neighbourhood. And, again, I usually should end with that vision, but let me say this, like Europe in the 20^th century where you were locked into major world wars and major conflicts, you transcended that by developing infrastructure work and creating economic interests. The Middle East needs a dynamics in which mutual dependency could create the impetus for stability and security as we move along.

We say all these nice things and all these ambitions and these hopeful attitudes about Iraq. I cannot be indifferent to the reality that there is a storm sweeping across the Middle East, and I am sure Simon will and you will be asking me about this dynamics between Iran and the United States, the Saudis and others. We are right in the middle of it and I would be very direct and blunt about it, our priority is Iraq’s stability, Iraq’s security and we do not want to squander that stability and we do not want that to become a victim, a footnote of yet another conflict in the Middle East.

The Middle East does not need another war. We have not finished the last war. The war against terror is yet to be accomplished. Yes, the territorial defeat of ISIS has been an important achievement, again, not to be underestimated. But that success is precarious and we still have the ramification of what it is happening in Syria, in Idlib, remnants of ISIS. We really need to have the neighbourhood come together to really work on consolidating this victory against ISIS and terminating to a permanent enduring solution that will not allow for the return of another manifestation of Al Qaida, of ISIS, the sons of ISIS, whatever. And we can talk about the challenges that we have to deal with in the post territorial defeat of ISIS, whether it is the issue of detainees, families, children, these are all other issues.

We have said clearly to all our neighbours, all our neighbours, we do not want our territory to be used as a staging post for any hostile action against of any of our neighbours. I have personally visited all our neighbours, except for Syria. The Prime Minister has visited also, I think, all our neighbours except for Syria. Our message was consistent and our message has been one and clear. Iraq’s security should be the common denominator for the neighbours. To be fair, we are hearing the same language from all our neighbours. They do not want to see Iraq go down yet again into a state of conflict and we are hearing assertions that this success in Iraq needs to be preserved and not to be embroiled in yet another cycle of conflict. To follow on that we are asking everybody to cool it down. At the end of the day there are many, many issues in the Middle East that these major regional actors have issues with and we understand, and these are not of the making of today, they are an accumulation of years, if not, decades of problems and dynamics in the Middle East.

But certainly one thing is clear. It seems to me, and I hope I am not simply engaging in an exercise of wishful thinking, I think all our neighbours agree of the imperative of Iraq’s stability and prosperity, as a common interest. We want to build on that as an avenue for regional dialogue. We acknowledge that the Middle East, for decades, had been in a state of disorder. The Middle East needs a new regional order, based on respect for sovereignty, based on a non-interference in domestic affairs of the states, based on the respect of the rights of people and recognising basic human rights in that neighbourhood. This is the way to go forward. Iraq could be the place where a regional understanding could take place. Iraq is an important country in the Arab League. Iraq looks with importance and emphasises the importance of relations with the Arab depth, with the Saudis, with the Gulf, with the Jordanians, with the Egyptians and others. This is vital for regional security and we have developed our relations with our neighbours in the Gulf, with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and certainly with Jordan and Egypt. Certainly, recently, we have had a major development with a three-way meeting between Jordan, Egypt and Iraq, which we are trying to build some economic dynamics that we’ll see to common economic projects and transborder trade and so on, not to mention understandings about the regional dynamics.

Our relations with the Saudis have improved tremendously, compared to previous times, and we have said utterly undecidedly that the security of the Gulf, the security of Saudi Arabia is something that is very vital for the security of Iraq, as Iraq’s security is vital to the security of the Saudis and our Gulf partners. With the Iranians, we have 1,400 kilometres of borders. We have relations between the two people’s – the two neighbours that span, for centuries, for millennia, cultural, religious and even ethnic relations. Our security, our economic interests really are tied together, in so many ways, the same with the Turks, who are major geopolitical actor to the North. We simply live in that neighbourhood. We need to come together and we do have fundamental differences. The message again from Iraq, enough, we cannot afford another war and we’re not shy about it, because we have tried it before. You start a war and it’s very difficult to end it and we certainly want to focus our resources and our attention and our revenues for the development of our country and for creating the jobs that are needed. At the end of the day, this is the priorities for Iraq and for the region. Let me end with that.

Once again, it’s a great honour to be at Chatham House and I look forward to the questions and conversation [applause].

Sir Simon Fraser

Well, thank you. Thank you very much, and that was an extremely interesting and rich survey of many issues. You talked about the historical legacy, and I must say as a young Diplomat, who’s first posting was in Baghdad in 1982, at the height of the Iran-Iraq war, and whose career was punctuated by crises involving Iraq throughout it, I fully understand the challenges that that leaves for the country. You talked about the security challenge, you talked about the economic challenges and opportunities, and you talked about the potential of the country in the region and in trade and other aspects. And I’m sure that people will want to draw out different angles of that in the questions and answers.

We have 35 minutes. We must finish at half past ten, so there’s time for a good Q&A session. If you ask a question, could you please raise your hand, so that you can receive a microphone, and could you please give your name and affiliation in asking your question? And could you please ask a question, rather than make a statement, and I think that way we’ll get the maximum value out of this event. I’m going to start with one question first if I may, drawing on – reflecting on what you’ve said. I think you did allude very clearly to the complexities of living in the region. I think I need to push you a little bit more on the relationship with Iran, and in particular, the US-Iran relationship and how that affects Iraq and how you see that playing out, because clearly, that is at the heart of stability in the Gulf region?

Barham Salih

Well, as I said, we have 1,400 kilometres of borders with Iran, and it is a fact of geography and there is history and people often talk about Iran’s influence in Iraq, but don’t forget Iraq’s influence in Iran either. I mean, this is a two-way street and Najaf is the seat of [inaudible – 27:01] of Shia Islam and this is not a one-way street and obviously, because of the Iraq-Iran war, because of the Iraq-Iran opposition was mostly supported by the Iranian Government over the years. There is a lot of Iranian relations with political parties and entities inside Iraq. But I want to tell you, the sense of Iraqi nationalism, assertion of independence of Iraq is real. Nobody wants to go back to a state of conflict with Iran. We do not want another Iraq-Iran war, we do not want to fight another war for others. We do want good relations with Iran. It is in our national interest for Iraq to have good relations with Iran, and we’re not shy about it. This is our national interest. We live there. They’re our neighbours and there are occasions in which we have differences and we disagree on issues, and I’m not saying Iran has no agenda, has no leverage, has no influence, of course it does. All these countries in that neighbourhood have cross-influences and leverages.

But one key aspect of dealing with all of this is really enhancing Iraq’s stability, enhancing Iraq’s sovereignty and really, a stable decent Iraq will be good for the entire neighbourhood, will be good for Iran, will be good for the Saudis, will be good for the Turks. But an Iran that is everybody – I mean, Iraq that everybody wants to descend the proxies to make this, we’re going to go back to where we were before, and I think, in my own sense, public mood in Iraq, public sentiment and Iraqis don’t want to do that. There is real mood of trying to safeguard the sovereignty of Iraq and keeping Iraq independent and immune from this. And by the way, in that context, many, many Shia leaders, for example, Shias are often looked at in the context of being close to the Iranians, obviously, the religious aspect is there. But many, many Shia leaders have come out very clearly, said, “We don’t want to be party to this conflict. Keep Iraq safe of this.” There were – I have spoke about this meeting that I convened, the Presidential Palace in Baghdad, in which we said we stay neutral in this conflict, we don’t want to be part of this conflict. We need to keep Iraq’s sovereignty. We should act upon our national security interests, and not be dragged into a war, and any actors that will do anything against this will be dealt with as an outlaw.

We have had a couple of incidents in which some – we don’t know for sure who, and our intelligence services are looking at, rockets were fired at – in Baghdad and some other military installations, and immediately, all the key players, including the Commanders of the Hashti Shabi, came out with statements denouncing this, because this was against the state policy. And I think this is the trend that needs to be recognised, this is the trend that needs to be appreciated and nurtured.

One thing, let me put things in another context. What you see by way of dynamics in Iraq today, had it been a year ago, had it been five years ago, had it been ten years ago, many in this audience said to me, the Foreign Office guys in this audience, would have celebrated it as a spectacular success. Those of you who have come to Baghdad recently and have gone around to Baghdad, do see the sense of normalcy coming. But obviously, I’m not saying things are what they should be. So, really, the context is important. Look where we were a year ago, look where we were, and this is not, all by the way, I want – don’t want to say this is all because of the Government of Iraq and the political leadership of Iraq. There is a sense of public sentiment, support, that people have had enough and they want to deliver on some of these values that we are espousing.

Sir Simon Fraser

Thank you. Could you just add on that a word on the relationship with the United States, as it stands at the moment?

Barham Salih

The United States is a very important partner for Iraq. The United States has led the international coalition against the war – against terror, and we appreciate their assistance. And the relationship is vital and important for Iraq and it’s a global power and we have an ongoing conversation, with the United States, both on security issues, on economic partnerships and this is a relationship we cherish and we value. And this is the essence of Iraq, I mean, basically, your questions, this is where we live and we – the United States is a partners of ours and Iran is a neighbour of ours, Saudi Arabia is a neighbour of ours. And, Simon, managing these balances can only be done with one way, saying we come first as we push our policies and our national interests. And there will be occasions in which we would irritate this neighbour or that or we would irritate some of this international partner or that. But I think even the notion is, we’re doing what we’re doing because it’s good for Iraq, not because we are subjugated to a foreign power. I think then we’ll have legitimacy both domestically, as well as internationally.

I would just say this, we’re saying these things, this is the state of policy of the Iraqi Government and we are intent on delivering on it. I’m not saying that we will succeed fully because the dynamics are really sweeping, are strong. But so far, so good, and we have done so because we believe this is to be the interest of Iraq, not because Iran is asking us to and not because Saudis are asking us to, not because the Americans are telling us to do. No, this is what we think is good for Iraq, and I dare say, not speaking for others, but I can say this is good for the neighbourhood too as well.

Sir Simon Fraser

Very good. Okay and let’s go to the floor. There’s a question here, this gentleman has been – I’ll come around.

Sam Naseef

My name is Sam Naseef and I am a Freelance Journalist. Iraq now, as you said, in a good position, what about its mediation role in the Palestinian problem? I didn’t hear any mention of the role of Iraq and the Palestinian problem. And in settling problems between like Saudi Arabia and Qatar and the UAE, you know, the regional problems, would Iraq now, and under your leadership and your other colleagues, take the prime position that it should take and that it has always taken in history?

Barham Salih

On the Palestinian issue, the stated policy of the Iraqi Government, we will support the rights of the Palestinian people. They’re establishing their state and they deserve it and this is a legitimate right. In terms of mediation role, we have not been asked and nor, I think, Iraqi mediation is required in – or has been anticipated, in that regard. As to the proper dynamics that you mentioned, we very much hope that this problem is resolved, and this neighbourhood does not need all these conflicts and these dynamics. It’s really not a good thing for the neighbourhood as a whole. But we do have good relations with all the neighbours in the Gulf, with the Saudis, with the Kuwaitis. The Emir of Kuwait was in Baghdad last week, and it was quite an important statement for the Emir of Kuwait to come on a bilateral visit to Baghdad, so many years on from the invasion of Kuwait.

Sir Simon Fraser

Very good. There was a gentleman here. Keep your hand up, please, yeah.

John Wilson

John Wilson, I’m a Member of this institute and a Journalist. The United Nations has a world programme for women’s equality called He for She. Its aim is to bring equality with men by 2030. Will Iraq achieve this?

Barham Salih

I hope so, but I don’t know. I hope so, and I think the issue for women in power, and it is a very important issue, I want to acknowledge the major deficiency that we have. Our Government, to date, has no woman member. So before I would be criticised, and let me criticise ourselves. Yesterday – two days ago, Parliament did not endorse a woman candidate. I’m told the Prime Minister is going to submit another lady’s name for the post of Education Minister. I hope that will happen and I hope, because I believe in it, but also I know that I will be reprimanded badly by my wife and my daughter. But to be fair, on women empowerment politically, Iraqi Parliament is now home to a number of Parliamentarians, who are really very vocal, very active and really have – they came through a quota system, which allows them – allow – obliges 30% of women participation, representation in Parliament. But really, they have gone beyond the issue of the quota, in a sense that they have proved themselves, they are really important voices in Iraqi politics.

Also, I would say, on the issue of women’s right, the key issue is economic empowerment. Without economic empowerment all the legislation, all the wonderful speeches would not mean much. We, in the Presidency, now are working on a couple of initiatives: one is a legislation on women entrepreneurship and how to provide women with added advantage to enable them to compete for private sector jobs and creating job opportunities for women, and certainly women entrepreneurship. And we have a number of other issues that we are working on, but this is the key social and development issue for Iraq and many countries in Iranian Belt.

Sir Simon Fraser

In the interest of gender equality, I think there’s a lady at the back there, who had her hand up, so let’s go there next, then I’ll come to this side of the room.

Sonia Spencer

Sonia Spencer from, SRM, the Corporate Intelligence firm. In your opinion, what’s the best way for Iraq to combat corruption?

Barham Salih

The best way? Corruption is the real challenge for any society that has gone through conflict. I call corruption the political economy of conflict and it’s a serious disease that has afflicted Iraqi state and we have a lot of work to do with it and it’s not easy, because this money, emanating from corruption, makes political parties and political entities, you know, were able to manipulate elections, able to manipulate the system, manipulate the security dynamics. We have a number of initiatives that are taking place at the moment. Parliament is taking quite an active role in monitoring the Government. The Prime Minister is now leading what is termed the Higher Commission for Combatting Corruption. But people, I have to tell you, say, “Show me the beef. Show me the culprits that are ending up in court,” and this is what is needed. One area of dealing with corruption, and I think this is a security issue, and this is something as important as the military campaign against extremists, is really chasing the money that are emanating from corruption deals. This will require international assistance and help to counter money laundering. Those entities that can smuggle money out of Iraq or conflict areas, to London, to anywhere else in the world needs to be really chased. There are certain international instruments in that regard, needs to be activated more, but fighting corruption is obviously priority for Iraq, important for Iraq, but we require a lot of international assistance and a lot of international instruments to enable it to happen. And a lot of money has been wasted, and a lot of that money is also being used to sustain the conflict and sustain the instability in the country.

Sir Simon Fraser

Right, I’m going to subject you to a bit of friendly fire from John Sawers now, who’s been waiting patiently to ask a question. Can he get a mic?

John Sawers

Thank you. John Sawers, amongst other things, Special Representative in Iraq in 2003, and thank you for your friendship and counsel over many years, and many British actors in Iraq have benefitted from it over many years. Those of us who worked in Iraq. in the early years after the 2003, the issue it all went back to sectarian divisions, Shia, Sunni, Kurd, and it was the way in which outside actors were able to gain traction inside Iraq. You’ve talked about those outside actors, could you say a little bit more about the dynamics between the three core sectarian communities in Iraq? Our mutual friend, Masoud Barzani made a mistake, I think a few years ago with the referendum on Kurdish independence. We’ve seen how the Sunnis have been torn away by the experiences of the Daesh. Is Iraq condemned to be like Lebanon and defined as a collection of separate sectarian communities, or can you make an Iraqi identity, and how far are you getting in that direction?

Barham Salih

John, I think I can definitively say, sectarianism and ethnic nationalism are on the way down, is not the defining factor, is no longer the defining factor for Iraqi politics. I’m a Kurd. I’m proud of my identity. I’m proud of my heritage. An Arab is proud of his identity. A Shia is proud of his sector, all is there. But the people of Basra and the people of Sulaymaniyah, both want better schools, better healthcare, they want respect for their human dignity and their rights, genuinely so. I mean, I cannot hide behind my Kurdishness to justify abusers of power in Sulaymaniyah or in Erbil, same in Basra, a Cleric cannot justify abusers of Government and corruption in the name of sect. There is a reality of this.

Iraqi identity versus Kurdishness, Arabness and so on, this is a matter that evolves over time. But I tell you, based on experience, the main communities of Iraq understand they have no choice but to come together. ISIS was quite a lesson for everybody. Initially, some people thought that ISIS is coming after the Sunnis. Shias paid for it, Kurds paid for it, Yazidis, Christians, everybody paid for it. I think, interestingly, unlike Europe, people in this part of the world are looking more and more towards better governance as being the key criteria for defining their politics, as opposed to identity politics. This is not to say identity politics will – is no longer important, will remain important, but this is gaining more credence.

And if you look at politics of Parliament, Iraqi Parliament, Sunnis are divided, Shias are divided, Kurds are divided and you have coalitions that are transcending the sectarian and the ethnic divide, and in terms of Kurdish situation and Baghdad, dynamics are a lot better. The newly elected President of the Kurdistan region, Nechirvan Barzani was in Baghdad last week and there is a lot of hope that this situation will be put to a good standing and we will be able to overcome the legacies of the past. And also, we are coming together because everybody is looking at these storms around us and we know the implications of these upheavals and we need to be together. And I think the omen are much better than say years back, again, not to be taken for granted, but I think we do have an opportunity to really chart a new course in Iraqi politics.

Sir Simon Fraser

A gentleman at the front has been patiently waiting on the second row. Can you keep your hand up and then the mic can – yeah, thank you.

Abdullah

Abdullah [inaudible – 45:56], Petroleum. Thank you, Your Excellency for an excellent speech and for all the remarks that followed. My question is, what do you think the current Iraqi Government is doing to improve the private sector participation in the development of the Iraqi economy? Especially that, right now, the Iraqi economy relies more than 90% on the revenues of oil, and as you just correctly said, that people need jobs, people need more stability on their lives to, you know, to have a say for state. Thank you very much.

Barham Salih

Empowerment of the private sector is important, but the key problem that is facing the private sector is corruption and bureaucracy. And I know the Government has recently enacted a number of decisions to basically facilitate the work of the private sector, certainly on major projects and major contracts, and so on, but we still have some way to go. What is a problem in Iraq is crony capitalism that is feeding on the system like a parasite and is not adding to the economy and we will have some work to do on that matter. We do need to reform and revitalise our banking sector. Our banking sector needs to become more engaged in investment, as opposed of mere financial transactions, certainly in terms of money exchanges and stuff like this, that leaves a lot to be desired for.

The Government has recently decided to send all salaries of state employees to banks, [inaudible – 47:39] to basically, to give it into, so ending the dependence on cash, this will be important, in terms of reviving and revitalising the banking sector in Iraq. As I said, in my presentation earlier, if we were to succeed with this Investment and Reconstruction Commission, that is primarily based on private sector investment. That will be for major infrastructure work. That will be quite a boost to Iraq’s economy and it will be quite a boost to the private sector’s involvement in regenerating and reconstructing Iraq.

Sir Simon Fraser

Now, and – ah, good, I was going to come to the back of the room on this side and lo and behold there’s somebody with their hand up.

Lindin Charles

Thank you. Lindin Charles, Phoenix TV, Hong Kong. Thank you, President, for your insights here. May I have your comment on the relationship between China? And also, how do you count the trade war between US and China? Do you welcome Belt and Road Initiative? And also, as aluminide of Cardiff University and Liverpool University, did you expect Brexit will happen today and what’s your view about the process?

Sir Simon Fraser

How many questions do you want to ask?

Lindin Charles

And what’s the point about wisdom for breaking the impasse for Boris Johnson, possibly? Thank you very much.

Sir Simon Fraser

I think probably we’ll focus on the international issue relating to China and the region?

Barham Salih

Well, I tell you, I have so many fish to fry, I would rather not get in the middle of the China-US dynamics. But China is becoming quite involved in Iraq, both in terms of the oil sector, as well as in Chinese companies are quite involved in Iraq and are coming to Iraq, and are eyeing the Iraqi market. And there is a lot of Chinese investment is waiting for the right projects to be invested in, in Iraq. China, we need to see it. China is a rising power and is coming to the Middle East, so it is there now, and certainly is becoming quite a partner to Iraq’s reconstruction in the oil sector, in other sectors as well. And what was about Boris Johnson?

Sir Simon Fraser

Well, I don’t – and there was a question, which your…

Barham Salih

I have renounced my British citizenship because of my constitutional obligation, so I cannot interfere in the domestic affairs of the United Kingdom [applause].

Sir Simon Fraser

Very good, and since this meeting is being livestreamed, that’s probably a very diplomatic comment. Over here, a gentleman on the corner, yeah.

Edoardo Troina

Good morning. Edoardo Troina, Debevoise & Plimpton. Thank you very much, first of all, Your Excellency, for your remarks so far. Just one key part of the sort of regional jigsaw around Iraq, clearly is Syria and, you know, that is an ongoing impact on your own internal security. So I was wondering whether you could say a few words on how you see the situation in Syria developing going forward, and what you see as being Iraq’s role in that? Thank you.

Barham Salih

Syria, it’s a very painful story, to say the least. Four or five years ago when the conflict started in Syria, many hoped that this would lead to a change and a new political order in Syria. Five, six – how many years is it now? Eight years, eight years on, hundreds of thousands of people killed, millions in refugee camps and a million Syrian children born in refugee camps and we’re struggling about how to go back to where we were and just basically move on. I mean, it’s a sad situation and it’s an instructive also, to learn that, you know, these type of conflicts, as they started, do not end up, and everybody is worse off, literally everybody is worse off.

Those who are most hostile to the Government in Syria now say, “How can we get out of this mess?” And the human cost is really monumental. The security cost is also monumental, and this is the heart of the Islamic Middle East. This is not the Tora Bora in Afghanistan and you’re talking about thousands and thousands of people. Look at Idlib, the numbers, the groups, look at the families of ISIS. It could, in total, be about 250,000, maybe 280,000 women, children and former ISIS fighters, or elderly or whatever it is, that are there, how to deal with all of this?

From an Iraqi perspective, this conflict has gone on for far too long. We need a political settlement sooner rather than later. We do have relations with Damascus. We have official channels, back and forth. We affirm, from our point of view, first and foremost, a security relationship that we have for the security of the borders, because this ISIS is a transborder issue, they come and go, and we need to work with the Syrian authorities, as well as with the SDF, who are in charge of quite a major stretch of the border. At the end of the day, we need to support and we are supporting a solution, a political solution that will respect the rights of the Syrian people and defer to them for the settlement not to be imposed upon them, but has gone far too long. And my concern, about the present dynamics in Syria, because we are worried about other issues now, this is taken to be the new normal and people will tolerate it for a long time. But this is not resolved and the dangers, the security implications for Iraq, for Syria, for the Saudis, I would say, for the Turks, for the neighbourhood and for Europe is huge.

Look, just look at the number of Al Qaeda and Al Qaeda affiliated groups that are operating in important pieces of territory in Syria, terrorising the senior population, but posing a direct threat to our security and a potential threat for the future as well.

Sir Simon Fraser

Thank you. Now, we’ve got five minutes left. I’m going to take one more question from the audience, then if you permit me, I’m going to ask one final one myself, which I’m storing up. There’s a lady here.

Cinzia De Santis

Thank you, and my name is Cinzia De Santis. I’m from a charity called Healing Venezuela. Your Excellency, very inspiring what you say. Going beyond your neighbourhood, across the pond, Venezuela is a country that is going through a lot of turmoil and has many similarities – many differences, but many similarities with Iraq: corruption, messy politics, a Dictator, and oil. I wonder, what are your thoughts on Venezuela?

Sir Simon Fraser

You weren’t expecting to be asked that one.

Barham Salih

Absolutely. I have not been briefed about it. No, I know. We was almost thrown into the middle of that crisis because the Ambassador, our Foreign Minister the Ambassador defected to the opposition and the Maduro Government sent somebody. I would say I’m working from afar, I have to say, and I’m very concerned about what I see, a rich country, a resourceful country and having to live through this mess is painful. I wish the Venezuelan people all the best, I have to say.

Sir Simon Fraser

There’s probably time for one more from the audience ‘cause that was a very quick one, so I’ll go to the gentleman at the back there. Hand up there. Oh, sorry.

Will Hutton

Will Hutton from SRM. At the moment Iraq and the wider region, it’s going to be facing the devastating effects of climate change, and as you talk about logistics and logistical progress and reform and building, is this the time to be making considerations towards that end as well?

Barham Salih

Well, lucky, I tell you this is truly a very, very important question and I do care deeply about it, and climate change is for real and desertification in Iraq is for real. Abuse of our environment, certainly in the case of Iraq, has been really profound and dangerous, and we have a lot of work to do to restore, sort of, sanity to that situation. You go to the South, in Basra, for example, which was the palm trees in the millions, so many had been cut across the country, this needs a lot of work. The sandstorms are becoming far more frequent, even though, this year because of the rain, was a lot less, than over the last decade and so on. This is, by the way, an issue that our neighbours are also very concerned with. Certainly in the Gulf the Iranians are very concerned with, the issue of water management with the Turks. These are the kind of transregional issues that needs to be addressed and these are the kind of issues that the neighbourhood needs to talk about. These are the priorities for our neighbourhood.

I personally have been involved, while I was in Kurdistan, in a number of initiatives on reforestation and dealing with some of these environmental challenges. We are working with a number of groups in Iraq, on this matter, and this is the priority for Iraq.

Sir Simon Fraser

Now, there’s somebody here who really wants to ask a question. I’m going to stretch my 30 seconds. Please could you wait for the mic. This is the last question, I promise.

Member

I’m – well, Your Excellency, it’s been great to hear you speak. I’m originally Iraqi, born in Baghdad, and left Iraq in 1980. I’m a Christian Iraqi and I want to ask you, what are you doing to help Christians feel safe and come back to Iraq?

Sir Simon Fraser

Which is, of course, a big thing with British people.

Barham Salih

Well, of course, of course. No, look, I mean, I hope what I’m telling you is not just a cliché answer, you know, it’s really one of the most painful things to see, the Christians and other communities, who have left Iraq and were – suffered the brutal repression, from extremist groups, from the conflict inside Iraq, and so on. I’m in touch personally, in touch with the many Christian leaders. We’re working hard with the Prime Minister and with Cardinal Sako and other leaders of the Christian community to put in place a security arrangement in the Nineveh Plains. That is basically dependent upon the consent and acquiescence of the Christian community, and to give them what is right to enable them to come back to their communities.

I think you attest to the fact that Iraqis, in general, Iraqi society, in general, has been very tolerant and never had religious bigotry in that. Obviously, you have this extremism that has swept the region, they have been a problem for Muslims, obviously, more for the Yazidis, or more for the Christians, and so on. We need to counter this. We are countering this, but in terms of specifics for the Christians, as I said, we’re working closely with the Christian leaders and communities to put in place security arrangements, certainly in the Nineveh Plains, and other areas, so that they can feel more safe and more comfortable with the dynamics.

And one thing of note, I visited the Vatican a few months back. I had the honour of meeting His Holiness the Pope. We spoke at length about Iraq. He cared deeply about Iraq Mesopotamia. I told him about Ur, the birthplace of Abraham, and I implored him to consider coming to Ur and to preach from there, because all the major religions, divine religions, Islam, Christianity, Judaism emanates from Abraham and the message should be not in the name of Abraham. These religions have been for peace, tolerance, co-existence. I sent him, His Holiness, an official invitation last week. I’m hopeful and praying that he will come. That will be quite an important statement of support for Iraq, quite a statement of support for religious tolerance and co-existence.

I want to say the following about Iraq. Mesopotamia, the birthplace of Abraham, Najaf, Baghdad, the centre of [inaudible – 61:36] Islamia, Kurd, Arab, Shia, Sunni, Yazidis, Christians, Turkmens, you name it, this is the heart of the Middle East. If we succeed there and if we truly defeat in a genuine sense, culturally, this extremism, religious extremism and Islamic extremism, whatever the term is, this is the place where it is defeated. If we succeed there, this will spell a success for the entire neighbourhood. God forbid, if we fail in our duty, it’s not only bad for us, but I think it’s bad for the entire neighbourhood. So I look forward to the visit by the Pope and I think that will be quite a moment of history [applause].

Sir Simon Fraser

Well, that’s a very uplifting note on which to draw proceedings, and I want to thank you very much for giving us so much time, for answering the questions so fully and thoughtfully and for sharing so much valuable analyses and understanding with us. We all wish you the greatest of success. It’s a big challenge, we understand that, and of course, this country and other countries need to do what we can to support you. I want to thank your delegation for accompanying you and thank you everybody for coming and have a good day. Thank you [applause].