Zimbabwe’s International Engagement

David Simon

Well, good morning, everybody, and welcome to Chatham House. I’m David Simon, your Chair for our one-hour session this morning, and I am a Professor at Royal Holloway, in the University of London, and a long-time associate of Chatham House. This meeting is being recorded and livestreamed. It is on the record, and you are, as usual, welcome to tweet about it on the Chatham House Twitter feed, #CHEvents. It is a great pleasure to introduce our guest and speaker this morning, Honourable Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Trade in the Republic of Zimbabwe, in which capacity he’s served since November 2017. Like so many in Zimbabwe, he was born on a mission, in the Mission Hospital of Munene in Mberengwa. in 1960. and joined the liberal – liberation struggle at the age of 17, I believe, in 1977.

Has travelled a long way, literally and figuratively, since then, has a master’s degree in international relations from UZ, the University of Zimbabwe, a master’s in business administration from Zimbabwe’s Open University, and a PhD in international relations from the University of Zimbabwe. He will address us now for about 20 minutes on Zimbabwe’s foreign policy and international relations, and then we will, as usual, have a roving mic and have questions and answers, and I will try to ensure a diversity of questioners, and I will remind you, when we start the questions, that you need to be short and clear, and not, as it were, attempt to answer or respond to the address in a long way, because we need to get as many questions in as possible. So, with that, Honourable Minister, over to you.

Honourable Minister Lt General (Rtd) Dr S. B. Moyo

Thank you. Thank you very much, Professor David Simon. I’m here, and I’m excited to be back at Chatham House, particularly for the second time. But let me say, first, the Executive Director of the Africa Programme, distinguished guests, friends of Zimbabwe, ladies and gentlemen, I’m talking and I’m going to be talking about Zimbabwe, a country, which I believe is in a metamorphosis of change. A country, I believe, is not a light switch on the arduous process of political and economic reform in Zimbabwe, and that’s basically what it is. But allow me, first of all, to thank Dr Alex Vines, the Africa Programme Director here at Chatham House, together with his colleagues, for facilitating today’s gathering. It is a special and distinct pleasure for me to be asked to address you at Chatham House, for what is now the second time, as I said earlier on. Let me also say thank you to those who have come here today, for the interest you continue to show in Zimbabwe and in the efforts we are making, as the new dispensation, particularly for three things: to rebuild an economy which, to all intents and purposes, was in a state of collapse, and secondly, to give renewed hope to our people for a better life and a brighter future for them, their children, and indeed, for all Zimbabweans. And lastly, to pave the way for Zimbabwe’s return to full acceptance, within the community of nations. Let me acknowledge, as well, those who are demonstrating outside this building. We may disagree, and Zimbabweans, like any group of people who do not think alike, will always, in fact, disagree. In fact, they say, “If you have three Zimbabweans in a room, they will form five different political parties.” But if we can disagree peacefully, respecting the rights of each other, we’ll find ourselves on a sure path to a diverse and inclusive democracy.

Ladies and gentlemen, it has been just over a year since I was last in London. When I spoke last time in the Augustus August House, I described Zimbabwe as having been a well-kept secret by Africa, a sleeping giant, a classic example of an emerging market. A lot has happened since then. My presence here this week, has provided a timely opportunity to bring our friends and partners up to date on those developments, and would like to share with them, with you, all these developments.

First, on the economic reform programme. As I said, let me begin by highlighting our economic reform programme. Since my visit in April 2018, we have launched our Transitional Stabilisation Programme, an ambitious two-year programme, including and sweeping economic and other reforms, designed to stabilise the economy, and to lay a solid base for sustainable economic growth thereafter. We are now ten months into that programme, and the results of governments, the austerity for posterity, or for prosperity measures have recorded significant results, most specifically, in promoting fiscal consolidation, reduced Government expenditure and unprecedented, over the past 20 years or so, sustained primary budget surpluses. Government is now finally living within its means. Economic reforms will inevitably generate pain and increase hardship for the poor and vulnerable in society. In fact, some say, “If there are reforms, which are not painful, then they are not reforms.”

Zimbabwe is no exception in all of this, but sensitive to the plight of these groups, Government is directing significant amounts of those budgetary surpluses towards cushioning those suffering the most from the tough, but necessary austerity measures. It is still not enough, but it is helping. I hope those that have been particularly critical of the reform programme, will remember that we are effecting these reforms pretty much on our own, and without any budgetary support from the likes of the International Monetary Fund, IMF, World Bank, or even the African Development Bank, the traditional and the writers of this kind of reform programme. This is because we remain indebted to them, to the tune of about $2.2 billion, and so, technically, they are unable to assist.

It is particularly concerning to ourselves, as Government, and indeed to the majority of Zimbabweans, that these reform measures are taking place within the context of drought-induced food insecurity, as well as the lingering humanitarian aftermath of Cyclone Idai. On Cyclone Idai, let me acknowledge that there has been some support forthcoming from the international financial institutions, as well as from ballot roll partners, for which, as Government, we are grateful and appreciative. For all these setbacks, our efforts are being recognised. The World Bank recently upgraded us from a low-income to a middle-income country, making our dream of being an upper-middle-income country by 2030 actually possible. In fact, we always say it’s not the World Bank which upgraded us, but we positioned ourselves there.

In tourism, Lonely Planet designated Zimbabwe as a must-visit destination for 2019, while the Berlin International Tourism Board recognises Zimbabwe as the most sustainable tourist destination. Nespresso has also identified Zimbabwe’s coffee as the next great discovery, in fact. We have also undertaken wholesale monetary and currency reforms. Until recently, our fiscal reform measures had not been adequately complemented by monetary reform, and, specifically, by currency reform. This was due to the fact that since 2009, we have not had our own currency. In 2009, Government introduced a basket of currencies and currency system. It initially served its purpose, in terms of stabilising our hyperinflation, which, at one time, Economists estimated to be the highest since German Weimar Republic. Among other policy goals, the basket of currencies system was intended to tame inflation and restore sanity to our economy.

Over the past two to three years, however, it became clear that the system wasn’t tenable. Firstly, because the strong US dollar became the unit of preference throughout our economy, and rendering our products and exports uncompetitive. Secondly, it drove deindustrialisation as the imported finished goods were cheaper and of better quality than their locally manufactured equivalents, and thirdly, it’s generated a crippling shortage of foreign currency, as imports far outpaced exports.

As every Zimbabwean will know, all of this created a thriving black market for foreign exchange, with the strong overvalued US dollar trading outside the formal system, at four or five times the official rate. Efforts to manage the divergence between the official and the parallel market exchange rates failed to have the desired effect. The consequences in inflation and the impact on pricing began to move into what could be described as dangerous territory, especially as Government, in line with these fiscal consolidation targets, continued to urge wage, and salary restrained across the board, including the public service. This inevitably meant an ever-widening distance between what the poorest and the vulnerable were earning and what they had to spend, in terms of purchasing power.

Some ten days ago, therefore, Government abolished the multi-currency system, and officialised what we call the RTGS unit of currency, as an interim Zimbabwe currency, pending the formal return of our own currency, probably by yearend or end of the first quarter of 2020. This measure has had the effect of calming the black market in the Forex, and of closing the gap between the official and the parallel market exchange rate and has begun to see a welcome fall in the prices of basic goods in our shops. It is early days, but we are optimistic that these measures are sustainable, and by giving Government control of both fiscal and monetary policy levers, we add further value and importance to the broad economic reform programme.

In April this year, we saw the start of a staff-monitored programme with the International Monetary Fund. The first review of that programme is due to take place right now, and with a second review scheduled for September. On the basis of meeting various agreed targets, and we are confident that we can and we will meet those targets, and as we accelerate a parallel political and legislative reform process, we believe that we have a good chance of securing bridging finance to clear our outstanding arrears with the World Bank, the African Development Bank and the European Investment Bank, a crucial step in our re-engagement agenda. Negotiations with Paris Club creditors are already ongoing, and the atmospherics look good.

Turning to constitutional and legislative reforms, which are referred to by the shorthand of political reforms, I’m pleased to say that good progress is being made on the process of aligning our just over 400 statutes with the 2013 constitution. We’ve made significant progress on this constitutional realignment project, and it has been said by our critics that progress had been slow, and that is certainly a fair comment, but I’m pleased to confirm the following progress.

Three separate bills that are meant to repeal AIPPA, which is Access to Information Agreement Act, and bring within constitutional parameters the disseminating of public information, protection of privacy, and that are meant to guarantee press freedom are currently before Parliament. Similarly, the amendment of the Public Order, Security and Maintenance Act, POSA, is underway, and Cabinet has absolutely approved its repeal. We hope that there will be sincere and considerate engagement with these amendments, both in Parliament and in public consultations, as these are laws that have toxified the relationship between Government and its critics, both in and outside the country. Thus, it is our expectation that AIPPA and POSA will be repealed by the end of July this year, to be replaced with the new laws fully in alignment with the democratic principles and people’s rights, in terms of media freedoms, freedom of expression and so on, as enshrined in the constitution, and as confirmed in several rulings by our constitutional court.

It is also our expectation that further amendments to the electoral law, arising from recommendations made by the various election observers, missions will be completed, at the very latest, by June 2020, although we aim to complete electoral reforms well before that particular date. Other key political reforms include the restructuring of the security sector, partly by way of implementation of recommendations put forward by the [inaudible – 17:11] Commission in the wake of post-election violence, further compounded by the January 14 and 15 violence. The process of consultation on this exercise is a continuous process. We are also implementing other recommendations of the [inaudible – 17:29] Commission, and this commission recommended that there should be a process of national dialogue. This process has actually begun.

Secondly, that compensation should be paid to the families of those who lost their lives during the post-election violence. We have started to pay compensation and expect to complete the process by the end of this year. Thirdly, that this public positions should undertake retraining and be capacitated to more effectively manage situations of civil unrest, so as to avoid the necessity to call upon the military for assistance. This process of retraining is underway, and we are currently discussing modalities with multilateral partners.

Fourthly, the administrative or operational framework gathering the deployment of the military in such situations, require the detailed clarification and the clear procedural protocols, placing any such military deployment under the command of the civil authority, which is the Police. These protocols are already being developed, and the reflection of this is going to be coming and will be affected within the context of the MOPA, which is the new legislation to replace the old act.

An independence complaints mechanism, as provided for under section 210 of the Constitution, was to be established. As I speak, what we call the principles to set up the mechanisms have been drafted for consideration by Cabinet, and the first step in enacting any new legislation, which is already the beginning of the process. And I know that many are concerned about the issue of accountability for the civilian deaths on 1 August and 14/15 January. Police and the military continue their investigations. We will have a way forward, in due course, and I can assure you that this is a matter that is receiving attention at the highest levels of Government.

In parallel with these economic, political and legislative reforms is another process of reforms aimed at addressing the easy of doing business, constrains in Zimbabwe. A raft of amendments to existing legislation and regulations has already been affected, cutting away red tape and bureaucracy related to starting and running a business, producing for export and investment more generally. A bill establishing the Zimbabwe Investment and Development Agency, ZIDA, a one-stop investment shop, modules along the lines of the highly effective Rwanda Development Board is currently before Parliament and will become law within the coming weeks. ZIDA brings the three existing investment-related agencies under a single roof and management structure and will facilitate and expedite the processing of all inward investment across all economic sectors.

While all this is ongoing, great effort is also being made to strengthen our ties with bilateral and regional trading partners, and I’ll briefly just outline some of these initiatives. Firstly, the continental, regional and bilateral initiatives. Zimbabwe is an active member of both SADC and COMESA, two of Africa’s eight regional economic communities. We have signed and will shortly ratify the Tripartite Free Trade Area, creating an FTA among the 29 countries of SADC, COMESA and the East African community. With respect to the wider continent, just last week in Niamey, Niger, African Heads of State launched the operational phase of the African Continental Free Trade Area, including arrangements which, over the next ten years or so, will see the reduction of tariffs and eliminating of other trade barriers between all the other member states of the African Union, a market of 1.3 billion people, with a combined GDP of $3.4 trillion. The coming into being of a single continent-wide FTA will accelerate the full integration of the continent into the global trading system. It will also create very significant trade and investment opportunities for those who previously might have shunned the continent as too fragmented or too risky, but who are now acknowledging this new exciting African reality.

In the region, we have recently upgraded existing bilateral corporation arrangements, for example, with South Africa, Botswana, and will shortly do so with Tanzania, Zambia and Mozambique, growing global interests in Africa’s potential and the trade and investment opportunities across all economic sectors, lies at the heart of this accelerated quest by Southern African nations, and indeed, all African nations, to forge greater unity, greater openness and more integrated markets. Together with Botswana, Mozambique and South Africa, we are developing plans to build additional railway linkages to Mozambican ports. Together, with Zambia, we are reaching final decision stages for the development of a huge hydropower project on the Zambezi River. Together with Botswana and Zambia, we are forging ahead with the Kazungula Bridge and a rail project.

At home, we are exploring projects that underline Zimbabwe’s pivotal geographic location as a land-linked country, making our country a regional fuel storage and a distribution hub. Together with regional and foreign investment partners, we have plans to build additional fuel piping and storage facilities in Zimbabwe. A key priority is the utilisation of the highways and Beitbridge Chirundu Road, and is the upgrading of the Beitbridge border posts, which is already underway. The refurbishment expansion in modernisation of a national railway network is also taking shape. Zimbabwe already hosts the Southern African Power Pool, which oversees the sharing of electric power between and among the nations of Southern Africa, much of which is transmitted via interconnector and switching facilities across Zimbabwe.

Our continued re-engagement with Europe and the Americas, in addition, we’ve signed a European and EPA with the EU, and more essentially, an interim EPA with the United Kingdom, an arrangement which will enable us to continue to trade with the UK, under the current used Pacific preferences, even after Brexit. We are working to improve trade and investment relations with the United States. The recent launch by the USA office proper – Prosper Africa Initiative, heralded by a US co-ordinated $20 billion investment in Mozambique’s natural gas industry underlines Washington’s burgeoning interest in the continent as a market, and for sure, but also, as a source of strategic minerals and ores, as a source of food, and as an increasingly important partner in the fight against terrorism and other global issues.

Strengthening ties with China and wider Asia. In Asia, we are part of longer-standing Africa focused initiatives, such as FOCAC, China, TICAD, Japan, KOAFEC, Korea, and so on, all of which bear testimony to the growing global awareness of Africa’s economic potential and its growing strategic importance. And at the centre of this is Zimbabwe, particularly in Southern Africa. The overarching objective of all these developments, international, regional, continental, and at a global level is to attract inward FDI, to attract investment in manufacturing, value addition and the beneficiation to boost production, exports and to create decent jobs for people. With this in mind, and as part of the ongoing reform process, Government has approved a new industrialisation policy, a new international trade policy, and a new export strategy, all anchored on the objectives of the Transitional Stabilisation Programme. A new investment policy is in the works. It will faithfully reflect the investment guidelines announced by President Mnangagwa during his maiden appearance at the 2018 World Economic Forum. The new policy is best practice there and will provide yet more substance and impetus to our Zimbabwe is open for business mantra, and now it is Zimbabwe is now in motion.

There is a lot more I could cover. As I said at the beginning of my remarks, a lot has happened in Zimbabwe since I was last here. Let me conclude by saying that we, as Government, believe in Zimbabwe, and we believe that we can lead the process of transformation that will see our nation reach its full potential. Our advantages are many and obvious. Our abandoned fertile soils, our amazing mineral wealth, including vast untapped reserves of coalbed methane gas and highly sought-after strategic minerals, such as platinum, lithium, and rare earth minerals. Our idyllic climate, our multiple tourist destinations, our well-educated people, and of course, our strategic location in the very heart of Southern Africa. I certainly appreciate that the reform process has been taking a lot of – a lot longer than people may have passions for, but I want to close with a comment recently made by President Paul Kagame, a good friend to the people of Zimbabwe, a comment which has inspired the title of this speech, in particular.

Speaking recently to a Zimbabwean Journalist in Kigali, President Kagame observed that transformation cannot happen overnight. Certainly, if anyone has experience of turning around a country in enormously difficult, and indeed, tragic circumstances, it is President Kagame, but as he observes, Zimbabwe is not a light switch, which you switch on and switch off. Change cannot be switched on as instantly as one switches on an electric switch. What I can assure you is that with the support of our regional partners and with the support of those who continue to wish us well in the international community, and indeed, most importantly, with the support and passions of our people, we will stay the course.

I will not have done justice if I do not end with some words from the master strategist, the Chinese military Philosopher, General Sun Tzu. He said, and I quote, “There is no instance of a nation benefitting from the state of prolonged warfare.” We do not want to be a Government perceived as being at perpetual war with our neighbours, with our regional partners, nor with even the international community. My visit here has only strengthened our commitment to re-engagement, will thus remain committed to economy and political reforms in our nation, and to re-engagement and to mending fences with all those who wish to engage with us with mutual respect. I will stop here, in order to allow time for discussions and questions. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you again for this opportunity [applause].

David Simon

Thank you very much, Honourable Minister, for a very broad ranging and comprehensive update, which indeed reflects your combined ministerial portfolios, and I’m sure has stimulated many, many questions. Could we follow normal protocol, and I should have mentioned at the beginning to check, please, that your phones are on silent, if they aren’t already. We have roving microphones, so if you could just indicate if you want to ask a question, and I will try and ensure, not just people from different parts of the audience, in terms of where you’re sitting, but also, a reasonably representative cross-section, in terms of age, gender and the like. So, if you put your hand up, and then just identify yourself, when you start to talk, that’d be great. So, we have the first question here from the lady in gold. Yeah, please.

Violet Gonda

Hello, can you hear me?

David Simon

Yes.

Violet Gonda

Okay, my name is Violent Gonda. I’m a Zimbabwean Journalist. I just wanted to have a two-part question for the Minister. On paper, Minister, what you say is – sounds really, really good, but for Zimbabweans listening to you right now, they will probably have a different view of things. So, I wanted to find out from you directly, what have you done, at the new Government, to improve the lives of Zimbabweans in Zimbabwe right now? Because what we hear and see is that, you know, the crippling power cuts, fuel shortages, arrests of activists, soldiers shooting civilians in the streets, and just looking at social media platforms right now, with people listening to you, and people are asking, what are you doing, you know, with the notorious Criminal Law Act, which is, as they say, your favourite tool of repression? What have you done about that? And then, lastly, you talked about political dialogue, and you’re here re-engaging with the West, but how would you respond to people who say, charity begins at home, and where you should actually start with the reengagement is with the political parties, especially the main political party, the MDC, which you have a problem with? What can you say about these questions? Thank you.

Honourable Minister Lt General (Rtd) Dr S. B. Moyo

Thank you very much. I’m very happy that you are a Zimbabwean, and therefore, you’re really reflecting exactly what is happening on the ground. The new dispensation took over an economy, which has been under siege and in the doldrums for probably two decades, and it is not going to be an easy process to get and extricate that whole nation out of its current crisis. It is going to be a painful process. It is going to be a reform process which is painful. As I mentioned earlier on in my remarks, that these reforms will obviously affect the poor and will affect many and will unseat a lot of comfort zones of many people, but they are for the good of all Zimbabweans. We have to get through the pain process, so that we can get to the destination, which we desire to be.

The issues which you described, I don’t know when you were last home, but I believe that when you land at the airport in Harare, you don’t see people being shot, or anything like that. It is a very peaceful nation. There are issues, of course, like in any nation, which sometimes occur, and when they occur, they’re dealt with, in terms of the law, but we don’t condone anybody who is – and any military person or anybody who is going to go and shoot somebody, in that particular matter. And let me say, that’s exactly what I’ve mentioned about the act you mentioned, which is the POSA, and that POSA has already gone through Cabinet and has been repealed. In fact, it has been approved for repeal, because the only process of repealing is when there is a substitute act, which comes into place, and the Parliament is currently going around the country, in all the ten provinces, making consultations about how it should be crafted and where are the issues, which should be – which are toxic and which should not be content within that particular act. And therefore, the process for all Zimbabweans, I hope they appreciate that the processes, if there has been an agenda for Cabinet and Parliament, it has been this act, because of these legislative reforms, which are trying to streamline a free environment for the people of Zimbabwe.

Violet Gonda

Thank you.

Honourable Minister Lt General (Rtd) Dr S. B. Moyo

Oh, yes. The President launched a dialogue, and he invited everyone, all the political actors. In fact, at this moment in time, I have it that it is going to be including, also, women, special groups, women, and youth and the various special groups. The whole purpose is that all Zimbabweans must come together, just, irrespective of their political affiliations, so that they can decide the main vision of the nation, so that they can really decide the main national purpose of the country. But, of course, everybody, like in any democracy, has got a constitutional right to either not make oneself present to those negotiations, but I can assure you that it is the desire of the President to ensure that everybody, including the MDC, that they should be part and parcel of this discussion.

Simon David

At the back there, and then on the aisle, yeah.

Duke Oputa

Yeah, and my name is Duke Oputa, Member of Chatham House. Minister, with regard to the African Free Trade Agreement, it was reported that you said a month ago that even though you have ratified it, you said that you would not fully implement the pact for at least 15 years, waiting until you are fully, and the keyword here is fully, industrialised. Is it not the case that this actually is the impediment, or at least one of the impediments of African development that there’s always countries dragging back initiatives that are designed to ease the situation?

Honourable Minister Lt General (Rtd) Dr S. B. Moyo

Thank you very much for that interesting question. In fact, as we come into regional integration, through such kind of agreements like the African Continental Free Trade Area, it is critical that each country examines its contextual environment, and so that we can really maximise and ensure that we participate fully, and not just one or two players participating in the implementation of an agreement. All what Zimbabwe or the G7 or the G6, so to speak, nations said was that can they be given time so that, because of this peculiar nature of their circumstances, as an example, Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe’s been under sanctions for the past 20 years, and it – that has subdued its industrialisation capacity, it has subdued its productivity, it has subdued its retooling capability, it – and therefore, because of all these issues, it just wants to reposition itself, so that might take time, but it could be earlier, sooner than later, and then slow down the whole process, but it doesn’t say no. In fact, it is ratified. It is the 23rd nation to absolutely ratify the African Free Trade Area Agreement. So, we are fully in support of it.

Richard Bourne

Thank you Minister. I’m Richard Bourne. I’m a Member of the Editorial Board of the Roundtable Journal, and an Advisor to the Ramphal Institute. My question is, what is the current state of Zimbabwe’s application to re-join the Commonwealth? There was a lot of discussion, a year ago at the time of the Commonwealth summit in London. I wondered what the latest situation is. Thank you.

Honourable Minister Lt General (Rtd) Dr S. B. Moyo

Ah, thank you very much. Probably, I could have not fully covered it in my remarks. Yes, Zimbabwe is very keen to join the Commonwealth. In fact, since my visit here last year in April, I had a meeting chaired by the then Foreign Commonwealth Secretary, Mr Boris Johnson, and it was the desire of all the other colleagues of mine, Foreign Ministers, who were on the table, that Zimbabwe was to come back into the Commonwealth, and that is also the desire. So, we’ve basically married the – Zimbabwe’s interest to join, and also, the membership of the Commonwealth to accept Zimbabwe back. And as we’re talking now, the – there’s been a first assessment mission, which is – which successfully went through to Zimbabwe, and as we’re talking now, last – this week, last week, there is a second assessment mission, from the Commonwealth, which is in Zimbabwe, as well, speaking, and we hope that it is going to come up with clear-cut recommendations, which would then be recommended too by the Secretariat to the member states, so that the final position is then given. And – but during my visit here, I’m going to be meeting the Secretary General of the Commonwealth, as well, and today, in fact, and that is one of the issues, which we are going to be discussing. So, we are also key members of the Commonwealth.

David Simon

Can you give us an indicative timetable? Is this likely to happen by the time of the next Commonwealth Heads of Government Summit, CHOGM?

Honourable Minister Lt General (Rtd) Dr S. B. Moyo

Well, it is not really up to us, it is up to member states, who are in the Commonwealth, to say yes, but the feedback we are getting is positive.

David Simon

Hmmm hmm, good. We have a question over here.

David Moore

Yes, my name – excuse me, I’ve got a bit of a cough. My name’s David Moore. I’m a Professor at the University of Johannesburg. A couple of quick questions, I hope. How would you put the actual origins of the economic crisis? I mean, do we go back to 97, when the deal was made with the war vets to – you know, the land question, the land invasions and so on, or the war in the DRC, where we had COSLEG and a lot of people say that a lot of military people got very, very wealthy, and that created a, sort of, military elite, or would you say it’s these cabals, which are distorting the whole economic system, and it’s very hard to make the reform? So, I’d like to have a little bit more detail on your historical perspective of the economic crisis.

But, secondly, during the January – the middle of the January problems, a very interesting statement came out, and I don’t know if it came out of your office or not, but some people said it did. There was this brief about, oh, foreign agents, puppets of imperialism and so on, which were causing the problems, and there was special mention of CANVAS, this organisation with this Serbian guy, who’s the head of it, and so on, and they were the problem. And then, of course, there were people, seven people arrested from the Maldives, or something. What was that all about, and why was – I mean, you’re trying to get international, you know, recognition, and so on, but you’re, kind of, going back to the old days of blaming the puppets of imperialism for all of the problems. So, if you can handle those ones, that’d be great. Thanks very much.

Honourable Minister Lt General (Rtd) Dr S. B. Moyo

Thank you very much. One of the major issues, which I mentioned last time in my address here, was that we learnt to unlearn the past, and as a result, we then managed to chart our way forward. There are so many things, I’m sure, which have happened in your life, since you were born. Before, I had to go back to them and show everybody we will then be, but all I’m just trying to say, sorry, is that, yes, there are many factors, which contributed to the economic crisis, which came to be to the boiling point, particularly in 2008. But fundamental is one thing, which I’ve just mentioned, it was a country under sanctions. It is a country under sanctions, and, secondly, some of the issues where, also, the manner in which we dealt with specific matters as a nation, and our own faults could have contributed, but I’m not so keen to stay so much and to be a prisoner of our own past mistakes. I would prefer to learn from them and move forward. So, what we are working on now is a vibrant economy, which must be a comfort for all Zimbabweans, and that is the key matter, which is fundamental.

In terms of the other aspects like the DRC and so forth, this was within the context of the SADC. It was a SADC response. It was not a Zimbabwean response to get into the DRC, but it was a systemic and a structured decision-making process, which was taken, and which, ultimately, saw various countries getting deployed into the DRC to sustain stability in there. So, there’s nothing personal, and that’s why, today, with President Kagame, we are very close. It was nothing personal, it was an organisational response, and a regional response to that particular issue. So, I don’t think – I wish I was rich, but all I can tell you is that all these issues,which have been taking place, are issues which were as a result of perceptions and other, which then developed into real truth or false truth, whatever the case may be. But all I can tell you is that it’s very straightforward and transparent.

David Simon

Thank you. The lady over there, and then the gentleman there, and then we’ve got a few more, and we’ll get in as many as we possibly can.

Esther Brown

My name’s Esther Brown, and I’m a Geopolitical Analyst at Gatehouse Advisory Partners. You mentioned international engagement with both America and China. It’s been suggested that Washington’s new initiatives in Africa have been to counter Chinese influence, and considering rising tensions between China and the US, I was wondering how you’d factor that into your engagement plan. And to, sort of, put you on the spot a bit, if you had to choose between China or the US, which would you pick?

Honourable Minister Lt General (Rtd) Dr S. B. Moyo

Thank you very much. Let me say the intention of Zimbabwe is to reposition itself as a friend to everybody in the world, that’s point number one. Secondly, it is not our business to be involved in differences between nations. It is their differences, or their issues. If we are going to be trading with America, let’s be so, and we want American investors. In fact, we are already receiving a lot of the American investment into the country.

One of the biggest power station, which is going to be built, is already going to be built by General Electric from the US, and they’re also coming into various other areas, like methane gas and other investment areas, and we are saying to the rest of the world, “This is the time. While it has been kept a well-kept secret, but now, as a nation, it has been unveiled as the best emerging market, which the international investment community must come into, whether from the US or from China.” On one hand, whilst that is happening, one of the major investment – investors in Zimbabwe are Chinese. So, we are looking at the national interest of Zimbabwe, so that our people can live a better quality of life, and that is exactly what our interest is. Whether we go by America or by China, it’s neither here nor there, but we believe that if an investment comes and it is assessed to be meeting the best international practice, we would take that, and in fact, the power station, which is being built by General Electric, General Electric is in partnership with China Power. So, if they’re coming in partnership so well, we need to divide them.

David Simon

Apparently, the question there was almost identical, so I’ll pass it over. There was a hand on the side there, if we could just pass the mic down.

Isha Member

Morning, General. My name is Isha Member, from Standard Chartered Bank. Just wanted to find out, diaspora remittances have been about two billion a year towards Zimbabwe, which is really important. I just wanted to find out, what is your strategy towards engaging that diaspora to continue investing, and if not invest even more, and channel more investments in the countries that they’re located in towards Zimbabwe?

Honourable Minister Lt General (Rtd) Dr S. B. Moyo

Thank you very much. I like you and he called me General, but I’m Mr. The diaspora community is a very crucial anchor of our strategy moving forward, and, in fact, it is one of the major companies and levers, which we are putting a lot of effort in assuring that we engage, and then we actually organise them. Not only in terms of their remittances, but in terms of their mobilising investment, and then coming back home to invest, and, thirdly, also, because of their skills and experience, we want all those views and experience, so that we can see our own people who have had all that time coming back to take certain key positions, and to contribute to the nation building, and then move forward with the country together.

This is not – we are all under one, and that’s why we wave this flag. We are trying to emphasise that, “Let us unite behind one flag.” It doesn’t matter, I don’t even know what political party you are, but it’s irrelevant. The banner of politics is below. Above that there is a certain line which, when you cross, you must stop talking politics, you must talk national interest and national purpose, and if we can also learn to develop that, then we are going to be an economic powerhouse, I think, in Africa. So, yes, we are. In fact, I’m going to be engaging the diaspora today.

David Simon

And we’ll have, probably, time for one more, the gentleman over here.

Dunstan Kamana

Thanks. Good morning, Honourable Minister, Dunstan Kamana, a friend of Chatham House. My question is about the introduction of the RTGS and how the Government proposes, I guess, to control inflation, because, as you mentioned earlier, the big – the significant reason for the abandoning of the Zimbabwe dollar ten years ago was due to hyperinflation. That’s broadly my question. I guess, you know, the other part of it is, you know, how will the economy contain demand for dollars, as well?

Honourable Minister Lt General (Rtd) Dr S. B. Moyo

Thank you very much. The whole economic strategy, and moving forward, emerging from the stabilisation programme, the Transitional Stabilisation Programme, was, firstly, to contain expenditure, Government expenditure, and secondly, to reduce money supply. The difference with 2008 was that whilst all these issues were taking place, but there was uncontrolled Government expenditure and money supply through printing and all other issues, but at this moment in time, you can, for those who have been in Zimbabwe, you can be assured that it is tight, and the money supply is tight, and that there are real austerity measures, which are in place. And that is the reason why we have actually decided to introduce the mono-currency, it’s because all the foreign currency, which is the dollar, which everybody wants, needed to be prioritised into priority areas. So far in this area, people were buying limousines, nice cars and everything like that, and so forth, because it was not, but now, because – unless if you’ve got three funds, then, well, we won’t ask you any question, but everything now will have to be controlled in a manner that we can reprioritise the allocation of foreign currency, and we’ve introduced the interbank market. That interbank market, we’re saying banks must start performing their responsibilities, and when exporters export, and the money comes back, we expect that unless if somebody is going to be purchasing raw materials, then the rest of the money must go into the interbank market, so that the next guy, or whoever, should be able to access the money. And then the circulation of the dollar and the demand for that particular dollar, and then, at the end of it we are able to then say, “This is the” – listen, for example, I was giving the example. Many countries, even within our region, earn far much less foreign currency per annum than Zimbabwe. We are somewhere in the region of about nearly $6 billion per annum from exports, from diaspora remittances, from even international organisations, and so forth. So, when you compute the whole Forex, which comes into the country, it is up – almost up to that level. Some countries are earning one billion, and they’ve not been having the problems we have. So, it’s a structural problem, which we have been having, which we have got to sort out, and then – so that it can then follow the best practice of normal transactions and normal obligations, and the demand for foreign currency can be channelled to priority areas.

David Simon

Thank you very much. Unfortunately, we’re out of time, although I know there are many more people who would have liked to ask questions. It certainly makes my job as Chair much easier when there are lots of questions, than when there aren’t, and we have to extemporise, but I think that reflects the level of interest and the topicality of Zimbabwe’s repositioning in the world today, which, indeed, was the subject of your talk, and thank you for the answers, full and frank, to the diversity of questions. It’s been a pleasure to host you again at Chatham House. As you said, it was not your first visit, and we sincerely hope it will not be your last. So, thank you all very much indeed [applause].