Ben Bland
Good afternoon, everyone. For those of you who don’t know me, by name is Ben Bland. I’m the Director of the Asia-Pacific Programme here at Chatham House, and it’s really my pleasure today to have with us the Japanese Foreign Minister, Mr Hayashi Yoshimasa.
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
Thank you.
Ben Bland
It’s a great privilege to have a Japanese Foreign Minister here with us. We haven’t had one for a long time. We actually sent our archivist off to try and find out the last time that we had a Japanese Foreign Minister at Chatham House and we couldn’t find out the date. So it must have been for a while, and if anyone here in the…
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
And I’m the first.
Ben Bland
Yeah, hopefully, yeah. If anyone here in the room knows, you can send us a postcard later…
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
Alright.
Ben Bland
…with the answer, but yeah, certainly a real privilege, and I think a sign of the, kind of, growing Japan-UK relationship that you’re here. Hopefully this is one of many more regular Japanese Ministerial and even Prime Ministerial visits to Chatham House. This comes at an important time in our bilateral relationship, and I think at a time when Japan’s regional and global diplomacy is more proactive and effective than it’s been for many, many decades.
Minister, you’re in town officially I think for the Ukraine Reconstruction…
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
Yes.
Ben Bland
…Conference, you’ve also had a G7 Foreign Ministers’ visit on the side, so it’s been a really busy day. The gameplan for tonight or this afternoon is that the Minister is going to make some remarks first. I’ll introduce him and his background briefly, then we – I’ll do some Q&A and we’ll open up to questions from the floor and online.
For those who don’t know him, Minister Hayashi is a member of the House of Representatives, as well as being Foreign Minister, representing the lib – ruling Liberal Democratic Party. He has a law degree from the University of Tokyo…
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
Yes.
Ben Bland
…a Masters from the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard, and I was just checking that you’ve been – you’ve basically occupied almost every single Ministerial portfolio, right, in Japan? Defence, Economic and Fiscal Policy, Agriculture, Education, Sports and Culture, so I’m sure he’ll take questions on any of those topics later. More importantly, he also is a big fan of music and plays piano, and is a big fan of The Beatles.
So, with that, Minister, I’ll leave the floor to you, if you want to go to the lectern…
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
Thank you.
Ben Bland
…and make your remarks and then we will carry on. And this is not under the Chatham House Rule, this is all on the record, although we are…
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
Okay.
Ben Bland
…in Chatham House. Thanks.
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
Thank you [applause]. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Ben, and for your kind introduction. Ladies and gentleman, this is my – such an honour to be given the opportunity today to address this team, Chatham House, under the non-Chatham House Rule.
So, as Mr Bland didn’t fail to mention, I confess, and I’m proud, that I am a very big fan of The Beatles. My first visit overseas as a Foreign Minister was to actually G7 Foreign Ministers’ Meeting in Liverpool the year before where I made a memorable debut by playing Imagine on the replica of John Lennon’s iconic white piano at The Beatle Story Museum. So, my dream come true already.
So, now we are facing a turning point in history in an increasingly severe international security environment. Russia’s aggression against Ukraine has showed, in the end of the post-Cold War era, however the contours of the next era are yet to be seen. We have to address a complex crisis where intensifying geopolitical competition is intertwined with global challenges, such as climate change and infectious diseases.
What is required in mapping out a vision for the new era is to maintain and reinforce the free and open international order, based on the rule of law, and tackle the challenges of the international community, including those faced by developing countries, toward the shared goal of leading the world to co-operation, not to division and confrontation. The value of diplomacy is really being tested.
With this in mind, at the G7 Hiroshima Summit, the leaders of the G7, they invited countries, including those known as the Global South, and Ukraine shared a recognition that the following four points are of importance.
Firstly, all countries should adhere to the principles of the UN Charter, including respect for sovereignty and territorial integrity. Secondly, confrontation should be resolved peacefully, through dialogue, and support for just and durable peace. That is based on the respect for international law and the principle of the UN Charter. Thirdly, any unilateral attempt to change the status quo by force is unacceptable anywhere in the world, and lastly, we should strive to uphold the free and open international order based on the rule of law.
As we work to translate this vision into actions, the United Kingdom is an indispensable partner for Japan in joint reshaping the new era. This is the message I would like to emphasise today, on the top of I’m a big fan of The Beatles, so Japan-UK relations have seen drastic development in recent years.
Against this backdrop, what is the specific mission to be undertaken by Japan and the UK? Prime Minister Kishida and Prime Minister Sunak issued the Hiroshima Accord last month, which lays out the complete co-operation Japan and the UK will undertake in opening a new chapter of our relationship. Today, I would like to present the three guiding principles of Japan UK co-operation, which flows through our co-operation under the Hiroshima Accord.
The first principle is shaping the new era. Our co-operation is rooted in our determination to shape a favourable international security environment, the second is building joint capabilities. Our co-operation goes beyond aligning our views and aims to develop the capabilities to joint we have less common challenges. The third is inspiring each other for sustainability and prosperity. We will leverage our strength to work towards inclusive prosperity, founded upon both economic growth and sustainability.
Let me now turn to how Japan and the UK will address the strategic challenges of today, under this guiding principle. As the international community faces a historical turning point, a decisive factor in shaping the new era is how we respond to Russia’s aggression against Ukraine. In Ukraine, their unquestionable principles of sovereignty and territorial integrity are being challenged. If we don’t resist this unilateral attempt to change the status quo by force, then it could happen elsewhere in the world, including in East Asia.
It was with this sense of crisis that Japan made a major shift in its policy on Russia. Our strict sanctions on Russia and our powerful support for Ukraine constitute, in and of themselves, our efforts to maintain and reinforce the free and open international order based on the rule of law. Also, as the G7 leaders did in Hiroshima, it is critical that we continue to send a powerful message to the international community that Russia’s nuclear threat, let alone its use of nuclear weapons, are completely unacceptable under any circumstances.
Japan will work together with likeminded countries to follow-up on the outcome of the G7 Summit, which includes, number one: providing powerful support for the recovery and reconstruction of Ukraine with the participation of the private sector. Number two: continuing strict sanctions on Russia, including addressing efforts to evade and circumvent sanctions, and engagement. Number three: engagement with the Global South.
Today, I’m here in London, together with about 20 Japanese firms and institutions, to take part in the Ukraine Recovery Conference, and the rebound Japan’s commitments made at the G7 Summit. Tomorrow, Japan will also hold the business roundtable between Japan and Ukraine.
I would like to express my sincere respect for efforts of the UK in organising this very important meeting in a timely manner. In addition, from the viewpoint of enhancing the engagement of the private sector, collaboration with third countries in both public and private sector is important, presenting another opportunity of Japan-UK collaboration.
Leveraging its experience and knowledge gained through its own recovery from post-war devastation and natural disasters, Japan will implement uniquely Japanese forms of assistance, including on demining and debris removal, rebuilding livelihoods through developing basic infrastructure, recovering agricultural production, and promoting industry, and reinforcing democracy and governance.
The security and prosperity of Europe and Arab Indo-Pacific is inseparable. To uphold the peace and prosperity of the international community, Japan and the UK must demonstrate, through words and action, that unilateral attempts to change the status quo by force or coercion are unacceptable anywhere in the world.
The second challenge for Japan and the UK in shaping the new era is in the Indo-Pacific where we see a tectonic shift underway in the balance of power. The Indo-Pacific holds much promise in terms of its potential as the engine of economic growth and innovation. At the same time, the other issues such as opaque and rapid military expansion, unilateral attempts to change the status quo by force, and economic coercion.
The future of the Indo-Pacific will shape the new era, not just for the region, but for the world as a whole. Our strategic challenge is linking the region’s potential to the stability and prosperity of the international community as a whole, and at a free and open international order based on the rule of law. Our vision of a free and open Indo-Pacific, or FOIP, upholds this. In tackling this challenge, one must inevitably consider the role China is playing in the future of the region and the world.
As stated in the G7 Hiroshima Leaders’ Communiqué, we stand prepared to build constructive and stable relations with China, recognising the importance of engaging candidly with China and expressing our concerns directly to it. We act in our national interest, it is necessary to co-operate with China, given its role in international community and the size of its economy, on global challenges, as well as in area of common interest.
This April, I visited China, Beijing, during which I candidly conveyed such positions at a meeting with Foreign Minister Qin Gang and Director Wang Yi, and to Premier Li Qiang. I will continue to engage in dialogue with China on the earliest opportunities, including on matters of concern.
At the same time, China needs to make a strategic decision that it will abide by the established international rules, and that it cannot and will not change the international order in ways that are contrary to these rules by force or coercion. Efforts to achieve this will need to be long-lasting. We must also work to enhance our economic resilience where further efforts on delisting, not decoupling, will be required. Building a constructive and stable relationship with China will be critical in charting the course of this region.
We cannot discuss the future of Indo-Pacific without stressing the importance of reinforcing co-operation with India, ASEAN, and the Pacific Island countries. In pursuing a FOIP, it is extremely important to reinforce our partnership with India, which holds this year’s G20 Presidency, as well as being the world’s largest democracy and a partner with shared fundamental values and strategic interest.
Furthermore, our ties with South-East Asian countries constitute a core element of peace and prosperity in the Indo-Pacific region as our vision for FOIP and ASEAN Outlook on the Indo-Pacific, AOIP, resonate with each other.
Efforts on disarmament and non-proliferation also constitute an important element for this region. China is accelerating its build-up of nuclear forces in an opaque manner and North Korea continues its nuclear and missile development. It is essential that we make realistic and practical efforts toward the advancement of nuclear disarmament while addressing our security concerns.
Moreover, China and Russia are strengthening their military collaboration, even after Russia’s aggression against Ukraine. Earlier this month, for the first time, the two countries conducted joint flights by their bombers for two consecutive days.
Under these circumstances, the UK is critical to our efforts in the Indo-Pacific. In its Integrated Review Refresh, the UK announced that it would make engagement in the Indo-Pacific region a permanent pillar of its international policy and expressed support for the vision of a FOIP. It also announced its three-pronged approach on China: protect, align, and engage, which is in line with that of Japan.
Moreover, the UK is already making concrete commitments to the region, such as through the Global Combat Air Programme, GCAP, and AUKUS. The UK’s permanent engagement in the region is astute from both strategic and geopolitical perspectives. The peace and stability of the Indo-Pacific is in the interest of the UK itself and we really welcome stronger engagement of the UK in this region. Let me be crystal clear today that the UK can count on Japan as the closest of partners in the region.
Now, as I mentioned earlier, the second principle of Japan-UK co-operation is building joint capabilities. Against the backdrop of these strategic challenges, Japan and the UK, as each other’s closest security partners in Asia and in Europe, will reinforce their capabilities to deter the threats of today and tomorrow, and respond in close consultation, if necessary.
This is a powerful message underpinning our commitment to a free and open international order based on the rule of law. We are seriously concerned about unilateral attempts to change the status quo by force or coercion in both the East and South China Seas. Freedom of navigation in the Indo-Pacific is a crucial element of the stability and prosperity of the international community. There are strong calls for Japan and the UK to pursue further co-operation.
With the Hiroshima Accord, as the new foundation, we will fully utilise the Reciprocal Access Agreement, or RAA, which has just been approved by its Japanese [inaudible – 24:40] to reinforce the interoperability of our two forces through larger, more frequent, complex and practical exercises. We will work to enhance our bilateral activities to a higher level, with a view to the possible application of the Japan self-defence forces asset protection measures on UK assets. If realised, the UK will be the third country following only the US and Australia to which such measures apply.
We highly welcome the UK’s commitment to deploy its carrier strike group to the Indo-Pacific region in 2025. It will be a prime opportunity to reinforce our joint capabilities and showcase our robust partnership. Deepening our co-operation in the band of contingency is also required, including in cases such as the evacuation of the nationals from Sudan. These are examples of what Japan and the UK will do to give substance to our new defence partnership, under the Hiroshima Accord.
With Japan-US alliance as the linchpin, Japan has been deepening co-operation with countries such as Australia, the Republic of Korea, and the Philippines, and we will also enhance co-operation with NATO. The Atlantic Declaration, announced by UK and the US, states that the two countries will strengthen collaboration with allies and partners in the Indo-Pacific region. As our defence partnership deepens, we would also like to proactively advance security co-operation with the UK and the US.
Building our capabilities in the field of security directly feeds into our ability to shape the new era, but some might ask, “What is the new era that Japan and the UK envision?” Our third principle, which I will discuss next, directly addresses this question.
The third principle of Japan-UK co-operation is inspiring each other for sustainability and prosperity. The future Japan and the UK are striving for is the era of increasing prosperity, founded upon economic growth and sustainability. And Japan and the UK are determined to lead international efforts for global resilience, so that every country benefits from the free and open international order based on the rule of law.
This is reflective of our shared recognition that in leading the new era, it is essential to listen to the voices of the so-called Global South and promote co-operation to resolve issues facing the international community such as food, development, health, climate and energy, and the environment. We also share the confidence that we can turn challenges into opportunities by leveraging each other’s strengths.
Let us take an example. The climate crisis has long been considered as a burden on the economy, but today, grave and imminent challenge as it is, it has come to be regarded as an opportunity for growth. Japan is an important investor in UK offshore wind and clean technologies, the UK has developed considerable experience in these areas, so this relationship has crystallised as a renewable energy partnership agreed on occasion of Prime Minister Sunak’s visit to Japan.
So, with the shared goal of ensuring energy security and accelerating the clean energy transition to achieve net zero by 2050, Japan and the UK can co-operate on renewable energy development and deployment, clean energy innovation, and critical mineral supply chains. We will work to link the global efforts on decarbonisation and energy transition with inclusive prosperity.
I believe there is a great potential for further co-operation between Japan and the UK sharing similar backgrounds, as two island nations with strong track records of innovation. We will continue to closely collaborate on the issue of economic security, as well as on science and technology and innovation, such as in semiconductors and AI.
Japan and the UK also shared the commitment to a free and an open rules-based international economic order. In this vein, we welcome the UK’s coming accession to the CPTPP. It is extremely significant that the UK, which shares the strategic values of the CPTPP, is joining us in enhancing the economic order of the Indo-Pacific region. It is critical that Japan and the UK, together with the US, continue to proactively engage in forming a free and a fair economic order based on the rule of law. Our shared determination to leverage our strengths to deliver solutions for the world is at the core of the third principle.
Ladies and gentlemen, the history of Japan and the UK goes back to the age of Shakespeare when a British Sailor named William Adams, having suffered a shipwreck, was washed ashore on the coast of Japan in 1600, before I was born. Adam was known by his Japanese name, Miura Anjin, and served as a Diplomatic Advisor to the Tokugawa Shogunate. He contributed to the culture and technological development of Japan by introducing navigational techniques and shipbuilding technologies.
Fast forward to the 19th Century, at the dawn of the Meiji era, a group of five young men from Chōshū, which is largely today’s Yamaguchi Prefecture and my hometown, travelled to the UK to learn the latest technology and knowledge at the time. This group of young men, called Chōshū Five, became leaders of modern Japan, including those who later became Japan’s first Prime Minister and Foreign Minister. Since then, the friendship of Japan and the UK has been one of inspiring each other, redefining our co-operation, in line with changing times.
Now, in the face of historical turning point, we are being given opportunity to aim even higher. Our enhanced partnership, underpinned by the Hiroshima Accord and the three guiding principles, which I have mentioned, contributes to global peace, prosperity and resilience. Our actions, firmly supported by our commitment to our vision, will pave the way for the new era that is different from a future where power reigns.
Japan is determined to take the lead, together with the UK, our indispensable partner, and others, in championing a free and open international order based on the rule of law, and to engage in diplomacy with our eyes set on the new era. I thank you for your kind attention [applause].
Ben Bland
Thank you, Minister, for that…
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
Thank you.
Ben Bland
…overview of Japanese worldview and the UK-Japan relations from Shakespeare to The Beatles, all in 25 minutes.
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
Good work.
Ben Bland
I’m going to jump straight into the questions ‘cause I know, sort of, time is short and I want to make sure we have time for questions in the room. Online, if you have questions, please put them in the Q&A box on Zoom. I’m going to start by asking about Russia, ‘cause, in a sense, that’s the reason you’re in London because of the invasion of Ukraine, and obviously, Japan has territorial disputes, both with China and Russia. And given what you were saying about, you know, fears about the use of force in East Asia, I mean, what’s your sense of where the China-Russia relationship is heading? What do China and Russia want to achieve, particularly in Asia together?
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
Yeah, even before the – Russia’s aggression to Ukraine, they are already starting joint exercise surrounding Japanese archipelago, and if you go back to the history in 90 – under the Cold War days, they have some territorial issues. So always Russia and China’s relationship is not a kind of marriage with love, but they’re more interest-oriented relationship in sometimes rivalry, sometimes interest, you know, makes them a marriage.
So – but today, I would say that they can get together when they face or vis-à-vis United States. So those are the great – the big picture, so that’s why, you know, from us, there’s a big trade and investment and economic relationship between China and Japan, whereas not so – not as much as big relationship with Japan and Russia. So that’s why, taking these backgrounds, we have to be very, very flexible in judging what we have to do from time-to-time.
But the basic stance on change that – with Russia that we have to settle the Northern territory issues and go get into – finally into the peace treaty. And vis-à-vis China, like I said, voicing out and ask the responsibility as a big country, and at the same time, keep dialogue and also having some co-operation in the global agenda, such as the pandemic and climate change, that what we call stable and manageable, yeah, relationship with China.
Ben Bland
And do you think there’s anything that Japan, the UK…?
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
Constructed, sorry, sorry, constructed and stable and bilateral relationship.
Ben Bland
But do you think there’s anything Japan, the UK, the US, can do to drive a wedge between China and Russia? Is there any way we can influence that relationship? Because it seems, for the world you’re talking about, a free and open world, a closer China-Russia collaboration is pretty negative for the world we want to build. So can we affect their relationship or do we just have to let it playout between Beijing and Moscow?
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
Yeah, the – this January, I hosted a open dialogue in the Security Council, being a President of the Security Council, in January, month of the January, and that tightrope on the same of the rule of law. And there’s so many other countries joined on the top of 15 Security Council countries, and all those countries, so-called the Global South, are with us when we talk about the rule of law.
So, Russia is in war now, but China is not in war and then China really cares about the voices of the Global South. So that’s why voicing together, including all those Global South, to touch upon those principles I mentioned, is the way that – to, kind of, deter the joint activities between those two countries.
Ben Bland
And obviously when you talk about the Global South, I know that Japan was quite active in inviting senior leaders from a number of countries, India, Indonesia, Vietnam, Brazil, to the G7 Summit earlier this year. Do you think there is room to convince countries in the Global South about, you know, Japan and UK shared concerns of – about China and Russia? ‘Cause it seems, so far, we’re seeing a world that’s, kind of, bifurcating, and there’s a bloc of countries around the G7, plus a few others, maybe Australia, you could maybe…
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
South Korea.
Ben Bland
…include South Korea.
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
Yeah.
Ben Bland
And then you have the rest of the world, so the G7+ camp is a pretty small one, so do you think that Japan and the UK can play a role in maybe trying to get more countries to understand…
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
Yeah.
Ben Bland
…our – the concerns about China and Russia?
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
Yeah, that’s a very important point that, since we started scheduling of the G7 right after the aggression last February, actually we found out that we had 11 G7 Foreign Ministerial meeting under the German Chairmanship last year. So that shows how G7 is working de facto, the headquarter for doing those kind of things.
And, as time goes by, we’ve found out that we really should reaching out to the countries so-called the Global South because, number one: they are affected by the hype of the energy and food, so they’re in trouble, and also, they’re not big enough or strong enough to voicing out why this should be or what is right. So that’s why we really think that we need a tailormade approach to each individual countries, you know, and though the situation in mind, and jointly, together with all the G7 and other likeminded countries.
So that’s why actually I’m visiting Paris from tomorrow, to attend the new ways of the development of finance hosted by France, and those practical ways to answer to what they need, it’s a very good way, that’s not saying only sayings, but action is really important. So, approach to this and the Global South is really important.
Ben Bland
Okay, and you mentioned, you know, concerns about unilateral change of the status quo through force in East Asia, and I guess when you say that, many people here probably think about Taiwan. Taiwan obviously has elections coming up in January and we know that the pressure on Taiwan from the PRC has been increasing, and there’s a very delicate situation obviously for Japan, as well, as a neighbour. How do you think we can better support Taiwan’s resilience without prompting Beijing to increase the pressure further on Taiwan?
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
Yeah, that’s things that the – you know, peace and stability actions for Taiwan Strait, it’s really important, not only for the regional, but for the world, so – and that’s why, in every communique, starting with the US-Japan bilateral, back in Prime Minister Suga days, and also G7 and as a communique, we’ve been keep on saying that the issue surrounding Taiwan, we resolved peacefully through dialogue. So – and that the important thing is we will continue to convey the importance of this message, the peace and stability across the Taiwan Straits, directly to China and that’s what exactly we discussed at the G7 there today, too. Yeah.
Ben Bland
Yeah, but – and what can we do to help Taiwan become a more resilient society? Do you think it’s supporting their membership of the CPTPP perhaps? I mean, ‘cause on the one hand, yeah, we need China to understand the risks, but we also need to help Taiwan’s economy, help it to maintain its, you know, thriving society and prosperity, so what can Japan and the UK do on that side to help Taiwan?
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
Well, for example, they’re – we are inviting Taiwan to join the WHO. So, for those global agenda, we don’t want to have some places vacant for the WHO, another international co-operation or international organisation. So, helping the Taiwan into WHO and another at that kind of activities is one thing we can do together.
Ben Bland
Yeah, and I just have a few more questions before I open it up. It’s, sort of, quickfire round. The next thing I want to ask you about is South Korea or Republic of Korea and relations between your two countries. In the new National Security Strategies of both Japan and South Korea, I think both your governments emphasised the importance of improving the bilateral relationship, which is already, you know, going quite well. In the past, we know there have been many ups and downs between Japan and South Korea, but do you feel that your two countries have turned a corner now in the relationship, that you won’t go back to the problems of old, but there’s a whole new paradigm, if you like, in Japan-Korea relations?
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
Thank you very much. Last year, I attended the inauguration of President Yoon, May or June or that part, almost a year ago, and that’s the beginning of the process. That’s like climbing on the mountain, and sometimes not reaching to the top, but going down again, and try again, down again. So – and this time, the leadership of the President Yoon and our Prime Minister Kishida, and also relationship between myself and my counterpart, Park Jin, our Foreign Minister, Secretary of State of Korea, really contributed to the realisation of the better relationship.
And last March, when the President Yoon visited Tokyo to have a summit meeting with our Prime Minister Kishida, we could confirm it’s the beginning of the better days. And one-by-one, we are now – each ministries and counterparts are starting discussion, and, you know, trying just – but this is not the end of the process, but we keep on trying better and better relationship, so that finally the people of the first nation really supports this interval.
Ben Bland
And just a couple of more questions about China before we open it up. I know that in your speech you said derisking not decoupling, but earlier today, we had Mr Liu Jianchao, the Head of the International Department of the Chinese Communist Party, speaking here, and he said to us “Derisking is basically just another word for decoupling,” to China it looks the same, so, yeah, can you explain? Like, what is the difference? How can you assure us that, sort of, derisking won’t lead to the disentanglement of China’s economy with Japan and others, which has been, you know, ultimately a source of prosperity, as well as some problems for the world?
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
Yeah, that – the key word could be the ‘economic security’, and we’ve been discussing these issues – even before I became the Foreign Minister, we’ve been discussing all of these issues at the party and the government, and we finally came up with some legislation last year to have a basic framework for economic security. So – which, including, you know, anti-economic ways, we experienced, as early as 2010, that the – when we capture the Chinese ship, the Chinese reacted by stop exporting some minerals to Japan. And when the COVID-19 started, as you know, when the Australia asked about, “What happened in Wuhan?” they just simply stopped buying coals from Australia.
So those things are – I don’t know precisely, but when you go to the WTO, it’s a not desirable actions. So, all of us in the WTO, and, for example, all of us in UNCLOS, so as long as you get into those agreement, you have to abide by the rules. So, to make sure that everybody, not only China, but everybody, should abide by the rules because we agreed onto that. So that’s why make assurance for that kind of things and also, to protect the advanced technologies and supply chain in case of something happen like another COVID-19.
We are trying to increase our manufacturing of the mask in Japan, and every company has agreed to do that. But waiting for several weeks, no mask supplies, and found out that their factory’s in China, so they cannot export to Japan. So that kind of things is economic security, and using this economic security, we are doing derisking, so that means, with this rule, we can invest and trade with China and other countries.
Ben Bland
Yeah, and the last one from me, we talk a lot about competition with China in the UK and in Japan and in the EU and in the US, but what is the ultimate endgame for this competition? What does winning the competition with China look like? I think, for the US, it probably means containment, keeping China down, in some sense, but for Japan, what’s the endgame of our policy – of your policy towards China?
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
Well, the history doesn’t have any endgame, so, it’s like, as a young man, we are watching movies, and it’s, like, two hours, and it’s always the endgame. Maybe chapter two, chapter three of the Star Wars coming after that, but now we are seeing the history such as Netflix. So, season goes and goes and goes, you know. So that’s why, you know, what we are trying to do is to derisking and everybody’s abide by the rule does okay, but in case somebody’s not abide by the rule, we need something to keep.
Ben Bland
Great. I am happy to take questions now, and if you can just make sure you do ask a question, not give a statement, and tell us who you are and any affiliation that you have. Just the lady there, yeah, if we come in this row, yes.
Ioka Hatana
Thank you so much. My name is Ioka Hatana. I am a doctoral student and a researcher at the University of Tokyo – oh, University of Oxford now, I did it in the University of Tokyo, as well. I was a – and I – also, I was a intern at your office long, long – many, many years ago, so it is, yeah, lucky. I am lucky now finally and so fortunate to have you – to have this opportunity to listen to your talk here. Thank you so much for a wonderful talk and covering so much in…
Ben Bland
If you can just…
Ioka Hatana
…critical issues.
Ben Bland
…jump to the question…
Ioka Hatana
Yes.
Ben Bland
…so we can get some more in.
Ioka Hatana
Sorry, my question is, so you talk about – a lot about a global peace, but a global justice is like – also, like, very interes – important, you know, for all over the world and for Japan and the UK, as well. And then there’s obviously a lot with internat – biracial international law, including international humanitarian law and international human rights law, so I’m just curious on how Japan should address this, you know, violation of international law, as well as, you know, the huge global justice issues?
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
Thank you, and I’m glad to see you again here as a Oxford student. So, actually, I mentioned in this here, in the speech, that just peace. We don’t – you know, simple peace is not enough if Russia’s aggression continues, and, to some extent, they have to accept, like, some of the territories are on the Russian side. It could be called as a peace, but it’s not just peace. So that’s why what we are doing is to help keep united to do more sanctions against Russia and helping Ukraine to keep the just peace, which is never change the status quo by force. And that’s why we needed just peace, and if we cannot keep the just peace, then that will send a long message anywhere in the world, including East Asia.
Ben Bland
Okay, question at the front here from this gentleman.
Jimmy
Jimmy [inaudible – 52:33], member of Chatham House. Foreign Minister, the question I’m going to ask you is in relation to Ukraine. There are two solutions there, either defeat Russia and then go for the disintegration of Russian Federation or appease Russian Federation and the consequences of it, what do you think will happen?
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
So, maybe I would like to see something in between, as you said, in the two options, and that’s why actually, we still remember that last March or April, both sides, the Ukraine and Russia, delegations sit together. I think that was in Belarus or somewhere, and they are talking about the peace. And that according to the news at that time, they’re almost making some agreement, in that sense, and that [inaudible – 53:37] of things coming up, so they just break.
So – and reportedly, it’s about the status quo in East two states and Crimea and withdrawal Russia’s troop from territory, and Ukraine’s promise not reaching – not getting into NATO, or something like that, that was reported. So, always there’s a way, a possibility of those kind of things. I don’t know if it’s possible now, under this situation, but trying to find a way, and at the end of the day, I am not in the position to decide what will be the best just peace for Ukraine. But Ukraine people is in position to what should be the just peace for them, so we are in the position to support the just peace for Ukraine.
Ben Bland
There’s an interesting question from online from Trisha de Borchgrave about nuclear energy, so she mentions, “With the political instability at Zaporizhia today, and obviously Japan’s experiences at Fukushima, do you consider investment in nuclear energy a secure way to shape the global future?”
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
Yeah, and if we don’t have a climate change issues, might be the priority for a nuclear energy, considering all these other things happening in Fukushima and, you know, Chernobyl and other places, but now we have to, you know, face the climate change and decarbonisation. So, practically thinking, the nuclear energy is one of the very key stable supply of the energy. So that’s why, in Japanese case, we strengthen and newly build the commission for we made of new personality to check on the safety, from the reflection of what happened in Fukushima. So to keep the safety at a high level and keep on going with that, with the one option we have to pursue and that is the situation facing climate change.
Ben Bland
Maybe one from the back, the gentleman with the glove.
Member
Okay, thank you. So I’m a ICT Researcher in Japan and so thank you for – so I’m interested in so economical security in your speech. So, as you mentioned, one public issue is, sort of, to manage supply chain in the international – so especially in the COVID-19 situation. So I think – so my question was, what issue is occurring in the future about economical security and how to resolve these issues? Yeah.
Ben Bland
So, I think he was saying what future economic security issues do you think might arise and…
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
Ah, okay.
Ben Bland
…how to resolve future economic security challenges?
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
Economic security?
Ben Bland
Yeah.
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
Yeah, on the top of the things I said, that the supply chain and also protecting the advanced technology, maybe we are trying to put one more policy on the framework we passed last year, is the security clearance, because the – if you jointly do R&D over the border, like US-Japan or UK-Japan, you want to know who that would be. And if that guy is having those information in the joint research and selling to the third party or just, you know, leaking to the third party, that might not be a good idea. So, that’s why the security clearance is the one thing we would like to add onto the economic security package.
And the one difficult thing is the freedom of academia and the controlling, so that’s why we have to begin with the tax money paid research programme, but maybe we need to have more wider coverage for that. And maybe one more things could be the – how to do with the retired persons for – from exam – from, for example, Sony or Hitachi or Toshiba, there’s so many people retiring with the technology in their head. And what happened if third countries, big company hired them, do together, pay good salaries, after three years, bye, bye. So, those things are more difficult to control because it’s the freedom of choice where you would like to work. So that’s why that kind of – relating to the R&D and also the intellectual property lies, the issues that we have to still tackle.
Ben Bland
Yeah, we have a lot of discussions at Chatham House about these issues ‘cause there’s obviously a very delicate balance between economic security and freedom of research, academic…
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
Yeah, yeah.
Ben Bland
…freedom, as you were saying, so it…
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
That’s kind of…
Ben Bland
It’s a difficult balance to get right.
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
Can I have your report after that?
Ben Bland
Oh yeah, sure, if we get any good answers.
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
Sure.
Ben Bland
The lady there in the middle.
Chatham House Staff
Oh, it’s the other one, sorry.
Ben Bland
Sorry, that side, there, that’s fine, go ahead.
Chatham House Staff
Oh, which one?
Ben Bland
Yeah, it’s…
Chatham House Staff
Here?
Ben Bland
…just here’s fine.
Dr Ruth Taplin
Okay, thank you. I – oh, I’m Dr Ruth Taplin. I’m Director of the Centre for Japanese and East Asian Studies, and thank you for your wonderful presentation. I just want to ask, what role do you see in high-tech companies which straddle the North and South and are involved with high technology, AI, and all these important developments? What role do you see in the future of them helping to resolve or – and maybe even help economic security and competition laws actually being used to reinforce that role?
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
Yeah, I think that technology, if it used rightly, will help solving all those issues. For example, like I mentioned, climate change issues are always regarded as a burden to the economics growth, but now we can use the new technology to have ammonium and hydrogen, so – and that will be a new technology as a business chance. So that’s why we can use it as – new technology as a business chance.
And also, for instance, quantum science, the computer capacity are – I don’t know how many times they’re going to be increasing the capacity compared to the existing computer. But it would dramatically reduce the energy consumption, especially electricity consumptions, because they can do more with the same kind of energy. So that’s why, if it used in the right hands, that will really help to solve all those issues, North, South, and also economic securities. So that’s why the – again, it’s very important to have the – those advanced technology in the right hands.
Ben Bland
Yeah, so there was a question here in the – on the – this side of the middle row.
Dr Nadeau
Thank you for speaking here today. I’m Dr Nadeau, member of Chatham House. I wanted to do a follow-up question on China’s ambitions with your semiconductor industry. Given the goals for sustainability and co-operation and the limited supply of critical minerals, how does Japan envision co-operation, and also, in particular, the relationship with Africa as a supplier of critical minerals?
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
Yeah, that’s a very important questions, and recently, we decided to subsidise TSMC to come to Kumamoto and scuba and they started their operation already. And so, the semiconductor is a very important areas, but if you see the rule of – oh, what’s that – the semiconductor doubles that capacity?
Ben Bland
Moore’s law? Moore’s law. Moore’s law.
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
Yeah, Moore’s rule, said to be almost to the end because the size of the line of chips are going down to the size of atoms very soon. So that’s why you cannot divide a – you know, divide atoms, just – you know, draw the thinner line. So, we are saying, like, more – not more Moore, but more than Moore. So, on one of very, kind of, good candidates here for more than Moore is to – like a Tiller missile or whatever the suite is, you have to put chip on chip and chip and like this.
So – and that technology is a very new, but if you can do it very light then it’s really more than Moore compared to the more Moore. So that’s why, again, those very advanced technologies, together with those minerals, and minerals could be also shifted, because I understand that now that you don’t need cobalt to use to make chips or some kind of machines by using new technologies. So that’s why, if you can change the minerals to let’s say silicone, silicone is everywhere, right? So that’s why, like I said to that last question, those outbounds to technology is we will solve in the way that we cannot imagine now, so we are very hopeful about the sorts of breakthrough of those technologies.
Ben Bland
I think we have time just for one more, and maybe the gentleman in the blue shirt over there.
Rich Preston
Thank you. Hello, Your Excellency, Rich Preston from BBC News and a member here at Chatham House. I’d like to ask you about India, a country which has maintained a fairly lukewarm relationship with Moscow, buying more Russian oil than ever before. Narendra Modi is in Washington DC this week. What would you like, from Japan’s perspective, President Biden to ask of Narendra Modi?
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
If, under Chatham House Rule, I can say something for that? But if it’s open, the official answer would be the – I refrain from commenting on the third party’s diplomacy, but India is very important country’s all for us. And I know there’s the group called Quad, US, India, Australia, Japan, it’s been doing so many things in the practical way to co-operate together for this area as a whole. So that’s why strengthening more and more with that co-operation between us, with the biggest democracy. And we share the barrier with India, so in that sense, I think it’s very important for more dialogue between United States and India, India with us, with Australia. Yeah, thank you.
Ben Bland
Thanks, we’re out of time. We are going to have a drinks reception upstairs at the end of this. In a second, I’ll ask you to join me in giving a round of applause to the Minister, but please stay seated at the end while the Minister leaves for a minute. I think he might join us at the drinks, very briefly, but please stay seated at the end while he leaves and then join us upstairs for a drink afterwards, but thanks, Minister, so much…
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
Thank you.
Ben Bland
…for sharing all your thoughts [applause].
HE Hayashi Yoshimasa
Thank you.
