Webinar: The United Nations at 75: Reform and Resilience

Sam Daws

I’m delighted to welcome you all to this special Chatham House webinar to mark the 75^th anniversary of the United Nations. My name is Sam Daws, and I will be chairing today’s session. The United Nations is turning 75 at a time of great global uncertainty. Its response to climate change, conflict, poverty, and inequality has clearly been made more difficult by the COVID-19 pandemic and rising Great Power rivalry. But COVID has also reminded us of the importance of effective and inclusive institutions for international co-operation. As my old boss Kofi Annan used to say, “Problems without passports requires solutions that transcend borders.” And this webinar will ask whether the UN’s roadmaps, including the Sustainable Development Goals, are still on course, and whether this 75^th anniversary presents opportunities to reinvent and reaffirm the value of multilateral co-operation. I’m delighted that Chatham House has convened three speakers who bring a wealth of experience to this topic. The Qatari UN Ambassador, Sheikh Alya Ahmed bin Saif Al Thani, Mandeep Tiwana of CIVICUS, and Nafula Faith Wafula from the Commonwealth Youth Council.

I’d like to remind everybody that this event is on the record, and to welcome the many Chatham House members who have joined us across many time zones. As the event progresses, please use the ‘Q&A’ function to ask questions, and also you can upvote questions from others that you would particularly like answered. Please use the ‘Q&A’ function and not the ‘Chat’ or raising hands button, and as usual, keep your questions short and pithy, please.

I’m going to ask our panel to make their brief opening remarks in alphabetical order, starting with Ambassador Alya Al Thani. The distinguished Ambassador of Qatar will be a familiar face to many of us, having served as her country’s Ambassador to the UN in both Geneva and now New York. Known as one of the most dynamic Ambassadors at UN Headquarters, someone who gets things done, she’s also exceptionally well-placed to brief us on the challenges and opportunities presented by this, the UN’s 75^th anniversary. She was appointed last January by the President of the UN General Assembly, along with her Swedish counterpart, to lead the negotiations on a political statement on UN75, to be adopted this coming Monday at a special, and of course now virtual, UN high-level meeting involving Heads of State and Government. Ambassador, we’re truly delighted to have you with us, you have the floor.

Ambassador Alya Ahmed Saif Al Thani

Thank you so much, Sam, for this very kind introduction and I’m really glad and privileged to take part in this virtual event by Chatham House. Let me proceed to of course the topic of the debate, as you have said, this is an exceptionally – we’re celebrating the anniversary of the 75^th – 75^th anniversary of the United Nation, an exceptional year, that there is a lot to do, in terms of, as well, overcoming the impact of COVID-19 pandemic. The United Nations 75^th anniversary, of course, reminds us as to how the multilateral system has, over the past several decades, offered lifesaving support to vulnerable people, safeguarded basic human rights and, of course, advanced sustainable development, and prevented further conflicts and wars. Multilateralism matters to all states, big or small.

But in recent years, of course, we have seen an erosion and somehow assault on the system of institutions, regulations and norms, built over the years. The COVID-19 pandemic has somehow changed this course of action. COVID-19 has spread around the planet and has inflicted catastrophic damage on societies and economies, with millions of job losses, loss of income, education, disrupted families of children, increased vulnerability and, of course, exposed weaknesses in the health systems worldwide. No country has been immune to this, to the effect of the COVID-19 pandemic. No event could have more clearly made the case for multilateralism than COVID-19 has made. Eradicating this pandemic requires renewed global co-operation among all countries. This also means working together to develop a vaccine against the pandemic and making sure this vaccine will be a global public good.

Regarding the renewed action for multilateralism, a few days ago, of course, 169 countries adopted a UN Omnibus Resolution titled Comprehensive and Co-ordinated Response to the Coronavirus Disease COVID-19 Pandemic, introduced by the President of the General Assembly of the 74^th Session. It acknowledges, of course, the fundamental role of the United Nations system, in catalysing and co-ordinating the global response to the COVID-19 pandemic. It calls for the intensified international co-operation and solidarity to contain, mitigate, and overcome the pandemic and its consequences, through the responses that are people-centred and genders-responsive, with the full respect for human rights. It also calls on member states to align their recovery efforts, with the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development, and the Paris Agreement on Climate Change, as the key framework for recovery and building back better. However, we cannot deny that the COVID-19 has brought to the forefront, the fact that the international community urgently needs new tools, new ideas, and new initiatives, to meet the common threats, and the challenges for the next decades.

Going back to the Political Declaration of the UN 75^th anniversary, which I had the pleasure of course to co-facilitate with the Ambassador of Sweden to the UN Ambassador, Anna Karin Eneström. Of course, in this process, states had overwhelming support for a reinvigorated multilateralism, and the belief that working closely together is the key to overcoming the current pandemic, as well as other future challenges. The Political Declaration ensures that the relevance – ensures the relevance and the credibility of the United Nation for the next 75 years. I say this because the Declaration presents a positive vision for enhanced global co-operation to respond to the greatest challenges, risks, and opportunities for the present era. Not only the COVID-19 pandemic, but also, a rapidly changing global climate, violence, and large-scale displacement in fragile states, and sophisticated cybersecurity threats. This vision is enforced through the 12 commitments contained in the Political Declaration. These 12 commitments represent a roadmap for action on issues such as preventing of conflict – of violent conflict in fragile states, protecting biodiversity, upholding arms control, non-proliferation and disarmament agreements, enhancing democratic governments and the rule of law, and urgently addressing issues of digital trust and security.

For each of the 12 commitments contained in the Political Declaration, the Declaration outlines the most critical and pressing issues before the international community, and points to the need for strengthened election to address a particular global problem. For instance, member states agreed that we should not neglect our past international commitments, and that in particular, of course, the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development, an agreement that we will leave no-one behind, especially by building back better and greener from the COVID-19 pandemic. On peace and prevention of conflicts, the Political Declaration calls for the diplomatic toolbox of the Charter to be used to its full potential, including preventive diplomacy and mediation, and calls on the Secretary-General to enhance this toolbox to prevent the outbreak, and escalation, and recurrence of hostilities on land, at sea, in space, and in cyberspace.

Of special note is the UN 75^th Declaration concluding section, which requests the Secretary-General to report back before the end of the 75^th session of the General Assembly, with recommendations to advance the Political Declaration and respective 12 commitments. UN member states who will, of course, on Monday formally endorse the Declaration have, in effect, begun to remake the case for the United Nation, building on the progress made over the past 75 years. As the Declaration acknowledges, in its opening paragraph, the urgency for all countries to come together to fulfil the promise of the Nations United has rarely been greater.

Dear colleagues, it is important to highlight that individuals and organisations from academia have an opportunity to help create the future we want, the United Nations we need. The anniversary [inaudible – 11:56] and help the UN meet the challenges we will collectively face in years and decades to come. This critical concluding language in the Declaration will help to ensure that the UN system is mobilised, to put forward effective follow-up through action plans to ensure the full realisation of the Declaration’s positive vision, and 12 concrete commitments.

Sam, I will stop here and of course, I look forward to this very engaging panel today.

Sam Daws

Thank you very much indeed, Ambassador, for those most valuable insights, and I’m sure there’ll be plenty of questions for you later on. Our next speaker is Mandeep Tiwana, the Chief Programmes Officer at CIVICUS, and Head of CIVICUS’s liaison office in New York. For a couple of decades now, Mandeep has been at the forefront of efforts to advance civil society participation in global decision-making, as well as spearheading human rights legislation through ICRC, the Commonwealth, and within India. So, Mandeep, we’re really delighted to have you with us, and I think you’re in the perfect position to tell us whether the promise of ‘we the peoples’ in the preamble to the UN Charter, is any closer at UN 75. You have the floor.

Mandeep Tiwana

Thanks, Sam, and I want to thank Chatham House for organising this really important conversation, and also recognise Ambassador Thani’s contribution, along with the Government of Sweden, to the Declaration on the 75^th anniversary of the UN.

If we go back to 1945 and we look at the Charter of the UN, it really was a revolutionary document. I mean, you know, the opening words of the preamble, “We the peoples of the United Nations,” were put together at a time when a lot of the Global South, a lot of countries in Africa and Asia were under the yolk of colonial domination. Democracy was not as well-recognised or established in many parts of the world, and then we have four, you know, commitments, really, and – or promises that were made, you know, to save future generations from the scourge of war, to, you know, to reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, dignity, and equality, to create conditions for justice under international law, and to promote social progress and better standards of living. These are pretty strong and, you know, and resolute commitments that were made at the time of the UN Charter.

Now 75 years later, I think it’s a good opportunity for us to ask ourselves, have we lived up to these commitments? Is the UN system, as we conceived in 1945, fit for purpose to meet the needs of a world that has changed so much, and then is much more multi-polar in 2020 than it was in 1945? And to enable us to answer this question, my colleagues at CIVICUS, you know, interviewed a number of practitioners and thought leaders from civil society in different parts of the world who had experience of engaging the UN. And this is what they told us. They said that the UN had made very significant contributions to the world, that the UN has really improved the lives of people around the world, but there’s a need for a major shake-up. So, the good news. I think good news, you know, whenever there’s been natural disasters, human-induced crisis, the UN has been at the forefront. The UN has also provided relief and succour to people around the world, you know, who have been suffering, or some of the conditions of the world’s most vulnerable people would have been much worse, had it not been for the UN.

The UN has also done quite well, as far as norms are concerned, in relation to human rights and gender-justice, and – which is, you know, a great achievement of the UN, to be able to advance this. And more recently, the Agenda 2030 for Sustainable Development is a great achievement, you know, that the UN has been able to undertake, along with member states. It’s arguably the greatest human endeavour ever undertaken, to create a justice, equal, sustainable world for us and it’s important that it’s, you know, to emphasise that it’s a universal agenda.

So, yeah, these are certainly some, you know, major achievements of the UN, but there are also some shortcomings, and some of the shortcomings are with the existing structure, and then some of the shortcomings, you know, are a result of the crisis of multilateralism, or the disfunction in multilateralism that we now face. But let me just first go into some of the structural issues, where the UN has this whole panoply of bureaucratic systems and structures, which are really quite challenging for outsiders, and people in particular, the people who, you know, whose name was listed right at the first of “We the peoples of the United Nations,” for them to navigate.

It’s really quite complicated, the UN is rigidly hierarchical in many instances, and then, of course, you know, it’s difficult to, you know, to go through the systems. So, one example is the accreditation system for non-governmental organisations in the UN. It’s a politically loaded process, human rights organisations have found it extremely challenging to even get accreditation at the UN, although many have also managed to do so. And interestingly, you know, while the UN is constituted in the name of “We the people,” many of the UN’s main agencies, its main offices, are located in countries in the Global North that have discriminatory visa issues, that for the people of Latin America, Asia, Africa, are oftentimes very difficult to get to. So that in itself creates an exclusionary access quality to some, to where the UN operates.

And then, you know, going further, I think the biggest challenge to the UN comes from the inability of member states, and the politicking that happens amongst UN member states, to resolve some of the more pressing, the more global issues of apartheid, and the Security Council is a real interesting case in point, you know, the five permanent members of the Security Council, whose responsibility it is to maintain international peace and security, are also responsible for producing weapons of war, and for distributing weapons of war, which create insecurity, which create, you know, the lack of peace and stability around the world. So, that’s something that, you know, is the irony of how the UN Security Council was constituted. And the consequences are devastating, one in nine people go to bed hungry every night, while global military annual expenditure is £1,917 billion. And this in itself is an anathema, we live in an age of unprecedented prosperity and having people not having their basic needs met, is something that I think we all need to take responsibility for, and our leaders in particular. And part of this reason, really, I would say is, again, you know, while there was this aspiration to create a United Nations in the name of “We the people,” the people of the United Nations, the United Nations has ended up being a very state-centric institution. It’s an institution that places a lot of emphasis on member state representation. There have been some advances made in civil society organisations, having engaged with the UN’s processes, but some of these are not enough, and I think the 75^th Declar – you know, the 75^th anniversary of the UN is a good time to think about it.

In fact, the Declaration on the 75^th anniversary talks about upgrading the United Nations, and here I want to, you know, to put forward three ideas where I think – where it’s important for us to now to think about how do we create, you know, a more people-oriented, a more people-centred structure, because we know, as in the middle of this global pandemic, that issues that affect people in one part of the world can so easily slip in and impact them in another part of the world. We all are confronted with the ravages of climate change, and we need global solutions to global challenges, or mass migration, which is impacted oftentimes by war and persecution. And we’ve developed all these universal norms, but we need to, you know, to protect people, and yet people don’t have enough of a say in the work of the United Nations, and so I would want to, you know, put forward three proposals.

The first is perhaps we need to start to think about an office of a People’s of Civil Society Champion at the UN. This office could help first assess, what are the barriers to participation at the UN? Then it could help support people-oriented communes at the UN, by the UN, and also help ensure proper public outreach by the UN across the world, and also, you know, enable civil society to help the UN in being more inclusive.

The second proposal I’d like to share with you, is because of this disfunction and politicking that happens by the great powers who, you know, who shape the work of the UN and often create this institutional inertia at the UN, we also need to be able to get issues that impact people at a global level onto the UN’s agenda. So I would like to propose a UN’s citizens’ initiative, where a critical mass of global citizens can make a petition to the UN and that – on an issue of global importance, and then that issue is to be grappled and resolved by the, you know, the General Assembly and the Security Council.

And the third idea is, again, an idea which is a 21^st Century idea, which means that, you know, the people need to have guided representation at the UN. Many times, many of the – many times, you know, the people’s aspirations are represented through state representatives at the UN, but people – but they’re far removed from the needs of communities on the ground, from the aspirations of ordinary people, and also, sometimes from civil society itself. So, why not create a mechanism that is forward-looking, that will serve the UN for the next 75 or 100 years through a UN Parliamentary Assembly that gives people direct voice and representation in the issues and the situations that impact their lives, and for which the UN was created to resolve and, you know, just going back to the spirit of the UN Charter.

So, I’ll stop there, and really, this is a good time for us, I would say, for us to start thinking about ideas, which may even be considered ahead of their time. I think in 1945, the UN itself was an institution, which as considered to be ahead of its time, yet we have made significant progress, in these last 75 years, and there’s no reason why we shouldn’t think about ground-breaking ideas at this point of time.

Sam Daws

Thank you very much, Mandeep, some great practical suggestions there. Our next panel member is Nafula Faith Wafula, the Vice President for Policy and Advocacy at the Commonwealth Youth Council, and a Director of the Ushindi Empowerment Group, and the Bridges Centre and, indeed, a number of other organisations. She’s received a plethora of accolades for her work for gender equality, education and economic empowerment across Kenya and indeed, internationally. So, Nafula, we’re delighted that you’ve been able to join us today from Nairobi. You have deep experience of working to transform communities through grassroots organisations, and we look forward to hearing whether you see commensurate leadership today at the international level. You have the floor.

Nafula Faith Wafula

Thanks for that introduction, Sam, and indeed, it’s been awesome to listen to all the other – my fellow panellists, as they spoke, over here trying to figure out whether there’s anything else that I can add, but I’ll just try my best. So, I first heard about the U – well, I mean, about the UN when I was in primary school. We studied about it. It was in our history books. The next time I heard about – the next time I really engaged with the UN system was in university. Can you hear me? Oh, great. The next time I could engage – I engaged with UN system, or trying to understand the system, was at university, when I was a student studying law, and that’s where I really dug into its successes and failures. More pertinently, for example, we studied a lot about what happened in Rwanda with the genocide, and what could have been done better. It was really interesting to just listen to all this upbeat thought about this huge system, or mechanism, that operates and brings together all our different countries, in school. And then I now engage with the UN systems because I am in the human rights and development space.

I work a lot at grassroots organisations, and in that way, I’ve been able to engage with different, what, arms within the UN space, or the UN system. And it’s interesting that we’re talking about this right now, the UN’s 75 years old, at a time when the world is facing some of the most complex challenges that it’s faced yet. So, when we begin with – we can talk about climate change, disease and pandemics, the pandemic that exists, we have such high rates of inequality in the world today, whether that’s because – whether you’re looking at it from – with regards to wealth or with regards to access to health and opportunities. Also, just inequality between the countries themselves within the UN system, inequality exists. There’s also a demographic shift and when you talk about that, it’s important to recognise the challenges within that, and also, the opportunities that exist, which I’ll probably talk about a bit later. And lastly, we have this ambitious goal to achieve the Sustainable Development Goals in ten years. Now, we have ten years left, and it’s– the clock is, you know, the clock is turning and different countries are at different stages, and for us here in Kenya, we were just talking about this the other day, not just in Kenya, but how it feels like we’ve taken a few steps back, in terms of achieving the SDGs in multiple issues, because of COVID-19 and the repercussions it has brought.

And so, then we look at this huge machinery, we look at the UN and, you know, like, we are forced to ask, is it working? Is it solving the issues we are face – we’ve faced some of the biggest humanitarian challenges ever this, you know, within this decade, you know, like with Yemen and what we’ve seen coming out of Syria, and just a lot of humanitarian crises. And it just feels like, as it has been mentioned by previous panellists, that the world has advanced so much, but has the UN caught up, in terms of the advancements? Is it outdated, you know, should we be looking at different ways of addressing the challenges that we face today?

So, the challenges that I feel we – the UN faces, that are pertinent and need to be addressed, are: one, the issues as it pertains to fundraising or how the UN gets its revenue, and so you see big countries, such as the US, when the US pulls out and pulls, you know, a chunk of money that is supposed to be within the UN system, and what sort of challenges that creates. So, in essence, the UN being so state-centric, issues of – it makes one think whether, if we are relying on a country, we’re relying on China or the US for money, and you know, they are feeding a huge chunk of our budget as an institution, are we really able to hold them accountable, yeah? How do we – how does the UN hold governments accountable, when they’re the ones that when the UN is really relying on governments for the money that they’re using?

And then, the second thing that I think has been an issue, has already been mentioned in some sort of way, I think the UN also has an issue as it pertains to civil – engagement of civil society and the public, there is a huge detachment. And I work with grassroots organisations, I see the impact that grassroots organisations make in communities, and the huge disconnect between UN systems and the public and grassroots organisations makes it such that the impact that they can – that the UN can create, particularly moving forward with the challenges that we face today, will be – it’ll be difficult for them to – for us to achieve what we’re trying to achieve, if we are not able to change the models or systems in which we engage with grassroots organisations and the public.

A third thing is, there is a huge step away from international collaboration or co-operation by states, and we are seeing that most states are becoming – moving and more towards, sort of, like, right-wing politics, and looking inwards, and focusing on their own populations, as opposed to looking at international co-operation, and yes, the issues that we are facing today require international co-operation at a level that perhaps didn’t exist before. And so, while that is happening, you know, how do we ensure that we are addressing some of these pertinent issues, if we don’t have enough international co-operation or engagement?

And the last issue I feel is especially from a – I come from Kenya, from an African country, I think if we are to talk about the UN, then we also need to talk about, you know, does equality really exist, even within the UN system, in terms of the countries, and their voices, and their priorities, and their needs? As an African country, or any other small country, whether it’s in the Pacific, and a country as big as China or Russia or the US, are priorities and needs ever going to be equal, or to be addressed on a level of equality?

So, the solutions that I think would be important to look at or pursue, are: one, there needs – we need to – there needs to be more of a focus on imple – I mean, I think there’s a lot of declarations and not much – not enough focus on implementation, and perhaps that’s because the implementation is, you know, up to the states or the countries. But perhaps we can look more at how we can do more implementation of the different, sort of, like, policies or declarations that are made.

Another thing is also just a focus on innovation and technology, we are moving more and more towards that. The digital space is one of the most unregulated spaces, in terms of policies. I think there is need for the – for international agencies, particularly also the UN, to look more into the role of technology and the digital space in our world, moving forward, and how they can engage better in that way.

Third is engaging more with civil society and the public, particularly grassroots organisations, and also engaging more with young people across the board, such that UN leadership also represents youth leadership, you know, not just within the youth and voice space, you know, especially looking at senior leadership, but how do we get more young people to engage within the UN space, so that we are looking at the future and creating a leadership that will be able to carry this institution into – to face the challenges that we are facing in the future as well?

I think I’m going to stop there and then, respond to any questions that come. Thank you.

Sam Daws

Thanks so much, Nafula, it’s really valuable to have a youth voice, and a youth voice from Africa, as part of this discussion, so thank you for all of that. We’re now moving into the broader Q&A session with the panel. So please continue submitting questions using the ‘Q&A’ function, and I see we’ve got about eight up there already and do upvote those that you like posed by others. I’ve been asked to start the ball rolling with an initial question from me to each of the panel members. So, I’ll start with Ambassador Al Thani, if I may. I’d like to ask you a sort of a two-pronged question. The Declaration is really quite a remarkable achievement. It’s got some very strong language that member states have committed to, around upholding multilateralism and international co-operation. What next? Where do you see the United Nations needs to go to continue that momentum in the future? And a related question, the Declaration continues – and the Declaration has an important urging that we learn and share experiences around reducing risk and making our systems more resilient, in response to Coronavirus but more generally. From your experience working in both Geneva and New York, what do you think the UN actually needs to do, in practice, to be more resilient organisation?

Ambassador Alya Ahmed Saif Al Thani

Thank you so much, Sam, very important questions. The first question’s in relation to what’s next after the endorsement of the Political Declaration? During the negotiations, we’ve really discussed this thoroughly, do we want to have a document that lists specific commitments, and that would be it? But the sense in the room was not. The sense of, in the room was just see, sort of, continuity. We tend to, you know, negotiate and agree on documents, and then we don’t continue the implementation or the follow-up. But the latter part of the declaration creates that sense of continuity. This was the idea behind requesting and mandating the Secretary-General, as the head of the Secretariat, to come up with a set of recommendations.

These recommendations would build on the 12 action commitments that we all agreed, and that our Head of States and Government will agree on, on the 21^st of September. These recommendations, of course, the Secretary-General will create, you know, come up with a plan, in terms of coming up with preliminary ideas that will be probably discussed within a member state-driven process but, as well, engaging the wider stakeholders, namely, of course, civil society, youth, and other relevant entities. So, this process of course will take place during the 75^th session. So the Secretary-General will create sort of a global consultation, coming up with a set of recommendations, engaging member states, civil society, young people, parliamentarians, academia, and a way for him to, by the end of the 75^th session, provide, you know, the wider membership and the international community with these set of recommendation, which will create this sense of continuity of the UN 75^th anniversary spirit. This is one.

The second question of course, the idea of creating this sense of sharing experiences and, you know, the whole idea of reinvigorating multilateralism. As I’ve clearly said, and of course my colleagues have mentioned, the COVID-19 pandemic changed the entire scene. It created this sense of needing to work with each other, even with this growing sense of nationalism, people resorting to more focusing on their national objectives, I think this has changed tremendously with the effect of COVID-19.

We saw how countries big and small, rich and poor, have been affected equally, due to the, you know, problems in the health systems worldwide. So, COVID-19 has brought, unfortunately, with its negative impact, has brought people together, has brought governments together. We saw how global initiatives have been put in place to – for the development of the vaccines, the Gavi initiative, you know, the processes of bringing countries together to build back better. I think, you know, in terms of those countries who are, you know, feel strongly about multilateralism, you know, my Qatar, Sweden and other countries, the sense has grown tremendously. And I think we are the majority now, and those voices who are tending towards nationalism are, I think, the minority in the room and we will continue on this strand. I think from now on, I think there is a sense of needing to work together and building back better.

Just to name, in terms of also helping the UN work effectively, the Declaration has a lot of bold language when it – when we talk about, you know, we need to upgrade the United Nation. This specific action point has took a lot of negotiation during the negotiation process. We wanted to come up with bold language, where we say we need to work on methods to keep pace and adapt. We need to cope with the changes. The COVID-19 pandemic is one actual crisis, but we will face, unfortunately in the coming years and decades, we will be faced with multiple challenges, multiple problems. So, this paragraph specifically talks about that, talks about that the world is changing. We have 193 countries acknowledge that the world is changing, and we need to reinvigorate multilateralism. We need to improve the way we work together and, of course, it talks about the ongoing UN reforms that need to be put in place.

I will stop here because I feel that I took more of the time, but there is a lot to say. Thank you so much, Sam.

Sam Daws

Yeah, that was excellent, Ambassador, and I think your reminder of the need to build back better is a really important one that we should hold through all our discussions. Mandeep, I’d love to come to you now with a question. You very helpfully talked about the – what needs to change, and you gave three examples of how to enhance civil society relations with the UN. I actually want to pose a question that Pamela Kennedy has put in the Q&A box, moving from the what to the how. She asks, “Will meaningful involvement of civil society and non-state actors in multilateral processes happen without the UN member states championing this? Who might be the champions?” So, Mandeep, where do you see, in taking these things forward, who are your allies going to be, and what’s the route going to be to achieve them?

Mandeep Tiwana

Well, that’s a really good question. I think, you know, in the way the UN is currently structured, it will need to be member states that, you know, that will probably need to shape the changes that are really needed to make the UN, you know, more oriented towards people and towards civil society. Now, who are the member states that are going to do this? I would say the states that are going to do this is those who have empathetic leaders, those who have leaders who believe in democratic values, who actually, you know, who generally care for democratic participation. And those leaders will need to exercise visionary leadership.

Now, some of the bigger powers that have, you know, that currently have a lot of influence in the UN, unfortunately, their leaders have not shown the maturity or the vision, you know, that’s needed to create, in the current age that we live in. But certainly I would say that, you know it will be democratic countries and with the, you know, with visionary leaders, but these countries need to be both from the Global North and from the Global South, you know, and there are plenty of countries and leaders around the world who are there, but they will need to get up and make their voices heard. And more importantly, while they are looking at reforms of the UN, I think it’s important that the UN itself reaches out to people, reaches out to civil society, collects a plethora of ideas, you know, in this 71^st – 75^th anniversary of the UN we can’t be, you know, be caught out by a paucity of imagination, and I think so far it’s really been a crisis of imagination, and an attachment to precedent, which the UN needs to go beyond, and we need to build better forward, I would say, you know, just to play off Ambassador Al Thani’s, you know, commitment to build back better. But we also need build better forward, because our world that we have forward is new and it’s changing, and it’s evolving, and as Nafula, you know, reminded us, there’s young people who have very different aspirations, who have very different ways of connecting and engaging with each other and, you know, and have a new vision for, you know, for what our world should be like.

Sam Daws

Thanks so much, Mandeep, and that very nicely takes me to a question to Nafula. Nafula, I was struck when you talked about the – that the barriers moving from declarations to implementation, and clearly, implementation has to happen on the ground in the – with the groups of young people and others that you’ve worked with. You talked about the opportunities that technology innovation might bring. What do you find on a day-to-day basis are the main barriers to utilising the, kind of, remarkable talent that exists in Kenya and beyond, among young people, in terms of their access to technology and ability to innovate and contribute to the economy? I’d love your thoughts on that.

Nafula Faith Wafula

Thanks for that question. I think, first of all, the biggest issue is of course the digital divide. So, there’s inequality, as it pertains to access to technology, and it’s not even just the technology itself, sometimes it’s the things that power the technology. So, for example, we may have – I’ll give an example of Kenya, where the government was looking to implement a curriculum with the use of, like, tablets and laptops in schools, but a lot of schools didn’t even have electricity, or you’d find some schools that don’t even have the classrooms. And so, it’s also those things that power that technology, and so, for a lot of developing countries such as mine, it’s about not just looking at technology itself, but it’s about solving multiple issues that ensure that access to that technology actually exists.

And then, the other thing is that it feels like – so even when it comes to technology, whether we’re talking about technology, in terms of engagement and communication, or just innovation, it’s still – there is still a feeling like government – like the government and other systems such as the UN are lagging behind. They’re not dynamic enough and haven’t caught on to all – to the vast development that is continuing within this space, particularly with young people. And you only need to look at the different innovations that are happening within the social enterprise space. Young people are doing amazing things, innovating in ways that are changing things so fast in countries, but we still don’t have enough, whether it’s financial support and investment, or just policies that actually are able to cater to the needs of young people, as it pertains to them engaging with technology and innovation and stuff like that, sorry.

And then, the third thing I feel, especially when it comes to technology and engagement, and I’m going to focus, narrow down on communication, let’s say, like, social media. I think another thing – another challenge that exists is when you look at systems within, say the UN, I think one of the issues that exists with young people is ownership, yeah, so just ownership, understanding and ownership. The language that is utilised by a lot of government and multilateral, like, multilaterals like the UN, like I said, there’s just not enough change that has happened within the space, and therefore the systems, the language, do not – have not been dynamic enough to expand enough to engage with and target young people in a way that will allow them to engage effectively. Thanks.

Sam Daws

Thanks so much, Nafula, that was really, really useful. I’m aware that we only have 15 – under 15 minutes left and I want to get through as many of the questions as I can. So, I’m now going to ask our panel members to give me quickfire responses, very short concise responses, and we’ll try and get through as much as we can. Ambassador Al Thani, can I put to you Dina Mufti’s question, which is a broad one, “What tools are needed by the UN to be more effective?” Can you just choose your top one or two, please?

Ambassador Alya Ahmed Saif Al Thani

Of course. The Declaration as well highlights that very clearly. The idea of enhancing transparency, accountability, and the efficiency of using, or financial resources. I think the key issue today is how we can put the financial resources to good use, especially now that we are working together on the response to COVID-19 and helping member states overcome the social and economic impacts of the pandemic. So, I think the key answer is having a more effective UN, by building an effective system of agencies and putting it in use, to serve the interest of member states.

Sam Daws

Excellent, thank you. Wonderfully concise and a great answer. Mandeep, can I – you mentioned the Security Council earlier in your remarks, and you work in New York and witnessed the big power conflicts that happen there. Can I put to you Robert Gardner’s question, he asks, “Because of the big power conflicts in the Security Council, this body seems to be totally diminished in influence. They may pass a resolution, but no-one pays any attention to them. How do you suggest this problem be remedied, or perhaps it can’t be?” he asks.

Mandeep Tiwana

Well, Robert, I wouldn’t say the Security Council is diminished, I would say it’s so powerful that it actually imposes institutional inertia, and it is actually complicit in the great violations of rights and, you know, we are witnessing war crimes and crimes against humanity being committed on an industrial scale. If you look – if you ask the Rohingyas, the Uighurs, the Tibetans, the Palestinians, why the situation for them is so challenging and I think the blame, it can clearly be laid at the door of the Security Council. So, what we would need to do there is that the Security Council comprises of five UN states, very powerful, of course, but the UN General Assembly is a much larger body, and I think the UN General Assembly needs to show some commitment to conscience, and some courage to challenge this, you know, this almost hoovering up of power by five members of the Security Council who have exercised their veto power with such effectiveness, as not to be able to drive effective action from the UN so far on the big challenges of our day.

Sam Daws

Thanks so much, Mandeep. I suppose we need to be reminded that there are, as well as the five permanent members with special privileges, there are ten non-permanent members elected by the General Assembly, that if they get together can actually outvote the permanent members. And so, before I turn to Nafula, I wanted to – Ambassador, if you don’t mind jumping in, in terms of your experience of the UN Security Council in New York, and what is it that developing countries on the Council, or the elected ten can do to enhance the – both the effectiveness, but also the legitimacy of the Security Council, going forward?

Ambassador Alya Ahmed Saif Al Thani

Thank you so much, Sam. I mean, this is a very key point as well. The E10, as well call them, that consist of the countries that are being elected by the General Assembly every two years, and of course they play an important role. I mean, if you – giving an example, many of the important initiatives that are brought to the attention of the Security Council, are brought by the E10 member states of the Security Council, issues relating to, you know, humanitarian crisis, thematic issues like climate change, for example. Many of these issues, you know, has been introduced by those ten member states within the Council. And I think they play a key role, and the diversity of views that comes along is very important and key to the implementation of Security Council resolution. And, you know, as Mandeep have said, you know, there is unfortunate incidences when the Council has never been able to decide on specific issues relating to peace and security. Look at Syria, for example, you know, addressing issues relating to the catastrophic situation lived in by the Syrian people. You see many resolutions being vetoed one after the other, because of the lack of consensus. But again, when it comes to the E10, they are the driving force. It’s always usually, you know, those countries that are presenting resolutions relating to the humanitarian situation in Yemen, and Syria. They continue to play an important role, but of course, it is a fact of life that the Council has to overcome these impediments in the future, and we continue to work in that direction. And just to note, in the Political Declaration, we did mention, when we talked about the reform of the Security Council and the very well-known intergovernmental process in negotiating the reform, as you know, this process has been around for the last 20 years. No achievements have been striked until now, but the Declaration does say, we need to instil a new life in the discussion of the reform of the Security – for the Security Council, for that particular reason.

Sam Daws

Thank you, Ambassador, that’s a very good point. Nafula, can I put to you a variation of Jeremy Ross’s question. He says that “This session illustrates the role of the United Nations, and this is to show the governments of the world that the world and indeed human beings can be and do better.” He says, “This requires action rather than words,” which was also very much your sentiments and your remarks. And he asks, “Where is there evidence that this can happen?” And I wondered if we can draw on your experience of what works and what doesn’t work, in an African context. To what extent has your work been supported by the international community and to what extent do you feel there are failings in that?

Nafula Faith Wafula

Thanks for that question. So, I speak from the perspective of – I mean, I don’t work in the UN, but I have engaged with them, and I feel like I have had the pleasure of engaging in multiple ways, one within the Commonwealth Youth Council as a, like, a similar institution which is, you know, the Commonwealth, similar in many ways. And then, also just as a young person running an organisation, a grassroots organisation, and representing other young people that simply want to see action and want to see their issues being addressed. And so, the issue – I think the most important thing is particularly here in Kenya, yeah, if we’re to talk about – if we’re to talk about creating impact, if we are to talk about impact, then we need to see more action, and I think that is the reason as to why I have said, over and over again, that there’s too many declarations, there’s too much being said and not enough being done to implement. And what I have seen here, in my experience, particularly as a person working in civil society, is the shift in conversations, as it pertains to more action-oriented work. And so, I think it’s important, if that focus is also taken to large institutions like the UN, and I know that it’s tough because systemic change and when you’re working with governments and so many interests, but I think there needs to be a shift, like, there needs to be a shift, in terms of thinking outside the box and beginning to look at, this is what we have so far. We have this many declarations, we have this many, you know, policy recommendations, but how can we really start to focus on implementation, and how can we really think outside the box? And that is the way that we’re actually going to create an impact. Thank you.

Sam Daws

Thanks so much, Nafula. Ambassador Al Thani, and then I’ll come to Mandeep, can I pose Chas De Vries’ question? I’ll paraphrase it ‘cause it’s fairly long. He points out that the UN is based on the enlightenment project of coercive states and rights, but the reality is that the problems facing humanity are often transnational in nature, modern insurgencies are transnational, they don’t respect boundaries and so on. So, the question, Ambassador, is, “Is the UN morphic enough,” as the question states, “or is it flexible enough, agile enough, to cope with this world, not just of nation states, but of parallel civilisations, transnational forces and movements?”

Ambassador Alya Ahmed Saif Al Thani

Thank you, Sam. I’m, you know, going back to the point of as well the Declaration, and within the Declaration we did mention the idea of upgrading the United Nation. And that it means that, of course, reform is necessary, and I agree with the person who posed the question, that the system in place today doesn’t give us the room and the flexibility enough to do more, in terms of serving specific issues relating to, you know, catastrophic situations, and issues relating to human rights in general. The reform is needed and required throughout the process, whether in the General Assembly, for example, you know, revitalising the General Assembly is a key subject, and necessary for us to do more and to cope with the new challenges.

The reform of the Security Council is necessary to deal with the vast issues of, you know, and affecting the international peace and security, and as well, the strengthening of the United Nation ECOSOC, the Economic and Social Council as well, is a key entity, and the Human Rights Council as well, is a key entity. The review of the Human Rights Council is always necessary to cope with the catastrophic human rights situation that we are faced with, you know, the complexity of conflicts today, you know, we are seeing the, you know, new types of conflicts, the complexity of conflicts and situations need reform. The reform is needed.

But at the end of the day, you know, yes it is, you know, a gover – an intergovernmental process, but the voices of civil society has to be heard, and this is something that we try to progress in and, you know, ten years ago, you can – the engagement of the civil society ten years ago is not compared with today. But it doesn’t mean that it’s enough. We need more engagement of civil society. We need more engagement of academia. We need to hear people think out of the box. I think we’ve tried to make sure the Declaration calls for that and spurs it out, and I just want to assure you, there is a lot of interest by many member states to reinvigorate the way we work. I’m happy that Qatar is one of those countries. But we need more, we need more support, and I think civil society movements can do and put a lot of pressure on member states to step in, because COVID-19 has changed our world, and we need to adapt.

Sam Daws

Thanks so much, Ambassador. I regret that we’ve only got one-minute left, so I’m going to pose a question from John Mason to both Mandeep and Nafula, and if you could simply give me a 20 second answer. John says, “The UN’s greatest strength is as a forum for all nations meeting in one forum. But how can it hope to also serve to represent the local in a truly meaningful way? For that purpose, acting more as a network rather than as a centralised institution.” So, Mandeep first, a very quick answer, please.

Mandeep Tiwana

So, that’s a really good question, and I think the UN really needs to go to the people. The UN can’t expect people to come to it and to the ivory towers of the UN, which are oftentimes located in inaccessible locations like I spoke about. So the UN really needs to do a lot more outreach, their resident co-ordinators, the UN is having a whole repositioning of its work, and that really needs to be focused on public outreach, and it just cannot always go through state representatives who – or it can’t always go through bureaucrats and Civil Servants. So, I think, that is something where I think the UN’s own staff really need to be up to the task of engaging the public directly.

Sam Daws

Thank you Mandeep and Nafula?

Nafula Faith Wafula

Yeah, thanks for that. I agree with Mandeep and I think just in addition to what he said, the UN needs to play a role as more of a convenor role, really. More civil society engagement is key. As a person that runs a grassroots organisation, a grassroot level organisation, I can tell you that it is difficult to engage with the UN as a structure or as a system. It feels like it’s up there. So, I feel like more engagement is important, and even understanding the different grassroots organisations or civil society organisational ecosystems in different countries, investing more in ensuring that civil society voices are heard, and engaging and convening civil society voices in a better and more structured way.

Sam Daws

Thanks so much. I wanted to give the last word to Ambassador Al Thani if I may. You’ve got a big day coming up on Monday with the Political Declaration that you’ve spent nine months putting a great deal of work into. What is your hope for Monday and for the United Nations going forward?

Ambassador Alya Ahmed Saif Al Thani

The hope, of course, that we hear the voices out, you know, loud and clear, by Head of States and governments who are participating in this very important meeting. I’m so glad that many have already indicated their interests. You can see the long list of countries coming to speak to the Assembly on the 21^st. It’s, you know, reinvigorating the commitments we have made in the Declaration, and to hear more about that, I think that’s our aspiration on the 21^st.

Sam Daws

Thank you so much. I mean, I’m sure everyone will agree this has been an enormously rich session, and I’m so grateful to our three panellists for the time that they’ve given up to share their insights with us, and also to all of you who’ve posted questions. I’m sorry we haven’t been able to get to all of them, but we have been able to reach most of them, and Chatham House, going forward, has an inclusive governance initiative and I hope that a number of you, in the future, will be participating in the future events that we’re going to have. Thank you so much, everybody.

Ambassador Alya Ahmed Saif Al Thani

Thank you so much.

Mandeep Tiwana

Thank you, it’s been a pleasure participating in this.

Nafula Faith Wafula

Thank you.