Saudi Arabia’s Foreign Policy Priorities

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

Welcome to Chatham House. I apologise for any of you who arrived at 9:30 this morning, and I’m very glad to see how many of you have turned up this afternoon, and we had hoped, Mr Minister, that we would get a great turnout, and thrilled that our members would turn out in such good numbers, despite the terrible weather, etc. But I think it is both a testament to the importance of the time that we’re in today, for your region in particular, but I think they’re all – the Middle East has always – is a cross-current for so many other dynamics and international affairs at any one time, and Saudi Arabia has long been at the heart of those cross-currents, and so we’ll be looking forward to your remarks there. And obviously, with the recent attack that took place on Saudi Arabia as well, the timing of your visit in that sense and the developments taking place with Syria, I could go on.

Although, in London, we have our own distractions, you have multiple, ones taking place at any one time. So, a very strong welcome there for – to Adel al-Jubeir, who is, as you know, Minister of State for Foreign Affairs of Saudi Arabia. And he took up the position of Minister of Foreign Affairs back in 2015, and been a US Ambassador or Ambassador in the United States for Saudi Arabi, but a long and distinguished career, including at the UN. And you’ve spoken here before, you’ve always been a very good interpreter for us and communicator, definitely, for your government of the positions being taken and of the region as a whole, and the kind of challenges it faces. So, what we’re going to do is hear a few opening words. I’ll maybe throw in a first question, just to get us going, but I think we wanted to keep this as casual and conversational as possible. So I’ll pose a few questions, but we have a great turnout here of members of Chatham House and guests, and obviously, we’ll give them an opportunity to ask questions.

This is self-evidently, perhaps, on the record. There are a few seats, one or two seats at the front, if anyone’s absolutely squashed on the side there, and we, you know, we’ll run this meeting pretty much to 3:30, and probably break it at that point. There’s two seats there, that’s it, and at the front. So, again, Adel, welcome back to Chatham House, if I may, that way, it’s just great to have you here. We were discussing, just before you came downstairs, the amount of – let me start with this one in particular, the way that countries seem to be adapting their position at the moment, in particular to the situation with Iran. This has often been the subject of our conversation here, and Iran is a country that obviously is experiencing the Trump administration’s maximum pressure, but that’s not a policy that has been supported by all of America’s allies, including the E3. And I’m just wondering, if you could just say how you think things have changed, in particular in this last year, in the, kind of, dynamics that you’re having to manage, as Minister of Foreign Affairs?

Adel al-Jubeir

I think when we look at the situation in the region, we see Iran’s hand in almost all of the conflicts, whether it’s in Lebanon, whether it’s in Syria, whether it’s in Iraq, whether it’s in Yemen, whether it’s in Afghanistan, whether it’s in trying to destabilise the Gulf countries, including Saudi Arabia, whether it’s in providing ballistic missiles to terrorist organisations that use them against civilians, whether those organisations are Houthis or whether it’s Hezbollah. The Iranians are on a rampage and have been on a rampage since 1979.

The JCPOA was an agreement that was made that we believe was flawed. Flawed because it allowed Iran to be able to enrich unlimited amounts of uranium, after 12 years of its signing, and we believe it was flawed because the inspections mechanisms needed to be much tighter than they actually are. We also believe that the JCPOA does not deal with what I call the problem of Iran writ large.

The problem of Iran involves two other areas. One area is Iran’s support for terrorist groups and its involvement in the affairs of the countries of the region, that needs to be dealt with, and the other area is Iran’s ballistic missile programme. So, unless we deal with the JCPOA and the sunset provision and the inspections and make it permanent, and unless we deal with the ballistic missile programme, and unless we deal with terrorism and support and interference in the affairs of other countries, we will always have an Iran problem. We believe – we supported President Trump, when he withdrew from the JCPOA, and we support the policy of maximum pressure. It’s really up to the Iranians to come to the table and make an agreement that actually stands.

The Supreme Leader of Iran has said, issued a fatwa saying, “That having a nuclear weapon violates the tenants of Islam.” If that’s their position, they should have no problem giving up the unlimited enrichment that they would get 12 years, after the signing of the deal, so why don’t they do that if that’s their position? Now, what we’ve seen is a realisation, on the part of most of the countries that signed the JCPOA with Iran, that we have to deal with those three items. The que – the differences, as I see them among those countries is, what approach do you take? Do you go maximum pressure and then force Iran to come to the negotiating table and deal with the JCPOA and the missile programme and the nuclear programme? Or do you assume that you have a few years before the restrictions on enrichment expire, and let’s use those three or four years to be nice to the Iranians, so they can be nice in turn to us? We don’t buy that. We believe in the former, and I think the position that the E3 countries took publicly in September to assign blame and responsibility to Iran for attacking the Aramco facilities in Abqaiq and Khurais, was a major statement and a major position for those countries.

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

It’s been interesting, as an observer myself, just of these developments recently in the Middle East and of the history you’ve just been describing. It seemed noticeable that the Saudi Arabian Government seemed to be reticent for blame to be associated too quickly. There was what felt like a, sort of, dampening down of the risks of some type of dramatic US response. It was almost as if the stakes had been fully revealed of the risks of a hot war emerging out of the cold war of maximum pressure. What kind of role are you playing, as the Saudi Arabian Government today, vis-à-vis the US? The US has some supporters, and certainly did under the former National Security Advisor, of pretty drastic action towards the Iranian Government. It appears, to an outsider at least, that Saudi Arabi, actually, if anything, has been playing a cautioning role, in this last few months, rather than one that’s sought to stir it up and, kind of, win. What are you…?

Adel al-Jubeir

We have taken the position and we are convinced and the evidence is compelling and it’s there that these missiles were Iranian made.

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

It was an act of war, though?

Adel al-Jubeir

We are convinced that these missiles came from the North, not the South. The – from the South, they wouldn’t have had the range to reach Abqaiq. We have asked the United Nations to provide experts to help us with the investigation, and a number of other countries have joined those experts, in order to investigate. We want to determine, beyond a shadow of a doubt, where these missiles were launched from, and as we go through with this investigation and collecting the facts, we are looking at what options we have that we can deploy, and we are consulting closely with our allies in this – on this issue, including with the United Kingdom. So, our options are on the table. We’re considering options. We want to make sure that the investigation is complete and that there’s no doubt, in anyone’s mind, where these missiles came from, before we take any steps. We don’t want war. We’ve said all along we don’t want war because war is devastating to the whole region, but we can’t just sit there and be attacked constantly and indiscriminately by the Iranians or by their proxies, and so, the international community recognises this. That’s why there’s a coalition that’s come together to protect maritime security in the Gulf, and that’s why more than 100 countries have publicly condemned Iran’s actions, and we hope that wisdom will prevail and that Iran will change its aggressive policies.

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

And just – I’m sure we’ll get more questions about this later on, but any – what, for you, would be some of the framework elements of a changed relationship with Iran, not just under the JCPOA element? You talked about sunset provisions, ballistic missile, but how do you move to an element of mutual trust, whereby you would have confidence that the Iranian Government would not be seeking to undermine neighbours or parts of Saudi Arabia itself? What are the steps, the confidence-building measures that could be taken in an interim? Because it strikes me, one’s not going to be able to get to the full 12 points that Secretary Pompeo has put down in one go, before starting talks. Is there some halfway place that would look like progress that you could be doing step-by-step, rather than trying to go all the way?

Adel al-Jubeir

The Iranian Constitution has enshrined in it the principle of exporting the revolution. That’s not acceptable. The Iranian Constitution has enshrined in it the principle of protecting the dispossessed, meaning the Shia. So, Iran believes that every Shia, anywhere in the world, belongs to Iran. That’s like Germany saying every Catholic belongs to Germany. That’s not acceptable. Iran does not respect the sovereignty of nations. Iran does not respect international laws. Iran does not respect the principle of non-interference in the affairs of other countries. Iran, since the Iranian Revolution, has been on a rampage, attacking embassies in Beirut, attacking the US Marines at Beirut International Airport, hijack, kidnapping and murdering Diplomats in Beirut, disturbing the [inaudible – 10:07] in the late 80s, attacking our embassy in the late 80s in Tehran, assassinating Diplomats of Saudi Arabia and a number of countries, as well as Diplomats from other countries. They blew up Khobar Towers in 1996. Their military attaché in Bahrain, at the time, General Sharifi was the ringleader. The Saudis, who were involved in it, fled to Iran and they haven’t come back since. One of them we captured in Beirut or was captured in Beirut, several years ago, with an Iranian passport, not a Saudi passport, even though he’s a Saudi.

They have blown up synagogues in Argentina. They have assassinated people in Europe. They have blown up facilities in Europe, and the list goes on and on and on. After the 9/11 attacks and the attacks against Afghanistan, the virtual Board of Directors of Al-Qaeda, including Osama bin Laden’s son, moved to Tehran, and Iran gave them shelter. You don’t do this. The Iranians are responsible for more than 90% of the world’s IEDs that terrorists use, in order to kill people. The Iranians have – we have captured Iranian operatives in Saudi Arabia, scoping and trying to destroy critical infrastructure. We have caught them trying to recruit Saudis, in order to cause mischief and murder in Saudi Arabia. We have – Bahrain is suffering, on a daily basis, from Iranian attempts to send explosives and operatives into Bahrain to destabilise it. In Kuwait, an Abadli cell was discovered, which is probably the largest terrorist cell in history. At the very same time that the Iranians are asking the Kuwaitis to try to mediate between them and the GCC. That’s not the behaviour of a country that wants to have good times with you. The explosions in Riyadh in 2003 that led – in three housing compounds, the order was given by the Chief of Al-Qaeda’s operations, Saif al-Adel, while he was in Iran. We have known this because we have the phone conversations.

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

But therefore, back to the point, so what are the steps that you would want?

Adel al-Jubeir

So, correct, and no, with this distinguished his…

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

No, that’s got the longest report from the 80s that has…

Adel al-Jubeir

Correct, and I can bring you all the way to now, 260 ballistic missiles launched in Saudi Arabia by the Houthis’ Iranian-made ballistic missiles. That’s not acceptable, and so, what does Iran need to do? Very simple. Act like a normal country. Stop this murderous aggressive behaviour and people will judge you by your actions, not by your words. The idea of talking, talking about what? For four decades we’ve tried to extend our hand in friendship to the Iranians. Iran is a great nation. We respect Iran’s people. We respect its history. We had excellent ties with them until 1973. We’d rather be trading with them than shouting at each other.

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

But therefore, there’s no first step that you could take? Oh, no, step take with them? They need to have demonstrated action first? I’m just checking.

Adel al-Jubeir

Yeah, we – I – we have not launched a ballistic missile at Iran. We have not provided the ballistic missile to dissident groups in Iran. We have not fired a bullet in the direction of Iran. We have not attacked any Iranian diplomatic facility. That’s not what we do. We’ve been on the receiving end of it, so the Iranians have to decide if they’re a revolution, which means you cannot deal with them, or if they’re a nation state, which means they are a rational actor, who abides by international norms and principles. We wish they will choose to be the latter, and then, this is how the world will open up to Iran.

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

I’m just going to ask one more question and then allow other people to come in on – as I said, we’ve got such a large menu we can go through. You mentioned, and we were discussing earlier as well, that there’s quite a lot obviously going on inside Saudi Arabia as well that would be worth touching on. The IMF has downgraded, as I understand it, at the moment, projections for Saudi growth, roughly 2% and roughly a bit over 0.2%, that kind of area there. So, a bit of a downgrade. Now, the world as a whole, is slowing down, trade wars, therefore oil prices are a little bit squashed at the same time. You’ve got the regional tensions you just described. Obviously, within this mix as well is what seems to many people the unresolved elements of the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, and the fact that that remains a judicial process that’s just getting going, as I understand it. How do you see the potential for Saudi Arabia being able to get that kickstart of foreign direct investment, which is so important for Crown Prince Salman’s big Vision 2030? How is it possible to do that, with these uncertainties still in place? So you worry that, in a way, Saudi Arabia’s become difficult, therefore, to invest in, and what can be done to change it?

Adel al-Jubeir

I think we’re moving on the right path. The implementation of Vision 2030 is designed to streamline the Saudi economy, open up new areas for investment, like mining and minerals and tourism and recreation. It’s designed to make the government more efficient and more transparent and more accountable. It’s designed to empower youth and women. It’s designed to instil a culture of innovation and technology in Saudi Arabia, in order to attract domestic and foreign investment, and so far we’ve succeeded. The numbers, in terms of, I believe, that the IMF reduced, and I’m not an Economist, a lot of it has to do with what people thought the shortcoming would be in the production of oil after the attacks.

Saudi Aramco surprised the world by how well designed its facilities were, by how well engineered its facilities were, and by how well designed its emergency response mechanism was. They were able to put out the fires within six hours in one location and four hours in another. They were able to begin production, very slowly, within 48 hours, and within two weeks, they were back to where they were before, and in the meantime, they were able to reduce or take out of their strategic inventory, to ensure that there are minimal supply disruptions to their customers. No country in the world – no company in the world has been able to do something anywhere near this, and this, if everything, is a tribute to their quality and their expertise. And I believe that this enhances investor confidence, not only in the Aramco IPO, but in general, in Saudi Arabia in general.

Now, we look at the region around us. We have a conflict in Yemen that we’re working with Martin Griffiths, in order to find a solution to. We believe things are moving in the right direction. We have brought peace between Ethiopia and Eritrea, after 20 years of conflict. We improved the relationship between the President of Djibouti and the President of Eritrea, after ten years of freeze. We are working to – with the G5 countries and our allies, in Europe and the US, in order to take on Boko Haram and stabilise those countries, so that Boko Haram cannot move from there into Central Africa. We are working with the – our friends in Iraq, in order to see what we can do to integrate our trade and investment and to help stabilise Iraq. We’re working to try to see what we can do about the situation in Syria and implementation of 2254, so that we can have a political settlement that ends this war, and so we’re work – and we’re working with – in Afghanistan, to try to mediate between the government and the Taliban, and we’re working with Pakistan and with India, to see what we can do about trying to stabilise or tone down the tensions. All of this we’re doing because we believe that a region that is stable is a region in which we can focus on our internal situation. We don’t want land, we don’t want people, we don’t want resources, we have enough of it. We want calm and we want stability, in order for us to improve the lot of our people. We want our young people, who represent 70% of the population, we want them to be – to have – to be able to achieve their hopes and their dreams and their ambitions, and the less problems we have around us in the region, the more focused we are on this.

So, we’ve – the changes that have happened in Saudi Arabia, over the last two or three years, have been nothing short of revolutionary. The empowerment of women, the empowerment of youth, the opening up of the public space, the – beginning to instil a culture of innovation and technology. We have now become one of the largest investors in the world in technology, because that’s where the future is, artificial intelligence, robotics, software, you name it, we want to be part of it. That’s what will drive Saudi Arabia to greater heights, and all of this programme is driven by his Royal Highness, the Crown Prince.

The issue of Khashoggi was a – is a very painful issue for Saudi Arabia. We have said that this was a rogue operation that was not sanctioned. It was committed by agents of the Saudi Government in a Saudi Government facility. His Majesty ordered an investigation. The investigation led to arrest of individuals and charges filed against 11 individuals. The trials are ongoing. There are representatives, from the permanent five members of the Security Council at the trials, as well as representatives from two Saudi human rights groups, also at the trials. When the trials are over, people will be charged and justice will take its course. We have also moved towards putting in place mechanisms driven by the Crown Prince, in order to ensure that something like this doesn’t happen again, and those mechanisms involve procedures and mechanics, in terms of our security services, and this is also ongoing. We have acknowledged that responsibility lies – his Royal Highness, the Crown Prince acknowledged in an interview with 60 Minutes that he assumes responsibility for this issue because, as a leader, this happened under his watch.

And so, we took responsibility, we took – we investigated. We’re putting people on trial and punishing them, and we’re putting in place procedures to ensure that this doesn’t happen again, and this is what we’re doing, and I think when this is over and the judicial process plays out, then people can look at it and judge us. It’s unfortunate that from day one, people accused us and declared us guilty before even seeing the steps that we’ve taken. Did anyone accuse Secretary Rumsfeld about the abuses at Abu Ghraib in Iraq before the investigations were done and the trials were done and the punishment was handed out and the procedures were put in place? Of course not. Did anyone accuse Ronald Reagan of being guilty for Iran-Contra? No, people waited, saw that an investigation was launched, individuals were held accountable, procedures were put in place to prevent it from happening again. That’s what countries do.

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

But those procedures, in both those cases, I would argue, started very much from inside the political system, they were not the result of external pressure. I think a lot of the frustration or maybe some of the doubt that’s been sown was the sense that this was dragged out. That the effort would have be to have covered it up, if it hadn’t been able to be discovered, and I think, both those examples: Iran-Contra and Abu Ghraib were exposed internally by Americans about America, and that’s something, obviously, been one of the strengths of their system. But you’ve given a very fulsome answer there, and I do want to – we’ve got 35 minutes or so to be able to use, so I do want to give an opportunity for others to come in, with all sorts of questions, and I will take hands, as I see them, and so on. Please introduce yourselves as well, please. I’ll try and take a bit of a mix across the room. So, there’s a gentleman there, a lady here, I’m going to go to the group there, and I will – we should have some time.

Crispin Ellison

Minister, Crispin Ellison, Member. You’re hosting the G20 next year…

Adel al-Jubeir

I can’t see you.

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

Oh, he’s there.

Adel al-Jubeir

Ah, here, okay, yes.

Crispin Ellison

You’re hosting the G20 next November. What are your priorities for that?

Adel al-Jubeir

We are working on the priorities. We want our G20 to be more forward-leaning. We want it to be innovative. We want it to be a showcase for how the G20 countries can come together, in order to deal with the challenges, and we’re still looking into this and we have Ministers responsible for putting it all together. We’re also consulting with previous G20 hosts, as well as other G20 countries, on what would be the most effective way to put it together, but we’re very excited about it. There will be – Saudi Arabia will be a beehive of activity over the pa – from December of this year, until the G20 summit takes place. There will be issues involving youth and women and there will be technology and environment, there will be Foreign Minister issues, a Finance Minister, central bankers, and the list goes on and on, and so you’re going to see a lot of activity between December of this year and November of next year.

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

Lady here, please.

Dr Ghadah Alharthi

Ghadah Alharthi, PhD from SOAS and Member of Chatham. I’m hearing now that Iran is part of the problem, not the solution. So, my question is, has the world realised the danger of the hostile behaviour of the Iranian regime on our region and on international security, and what steps will it take, in order to stops its aggression?

Adel al-Jubeir

The world has recognised that Iran is a problem many, many years ago when it sanctioned Iran for its support of terrorism, and the world recognises that Iran is a problem, when sanctions keep being added onto Iran, and those sanctions didn’t come from us, they came from the United Nations and other countries. The realisation now is that the Iranian behaviour has to change and the burden is on Iran to bring about that change. Iran is a great country that’s losing or wasting a lot of its potential by causing mischief in Lebanon and Syria and Iraq, Bahrain and Yemen, and other places, when it could use those resources to improve the standard of living of its people. Since the JCPOA was signed, Iran used the income, from the JCPOA, in order to fund its mischievous activities. It didn’t use that income to improve the living standards of its people. I hope that policy will change, but unless and until that changes, Iran can’t expect to be welcomed as a member of the international community in good standing.

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

Right, but you’re very good at getting the questions out. So, first, there’s a lady here, gentleman there, and sorry, lady, keep your hand up please, and the gentleman next to you after that, and then I’m going to go to that corner.

Dania Akkad

Hi, I’m Dania Akkad with Middle East Eye. Thank you for taking our questions. I wonder, given that the deal of the century doesn’t appear to be happening this century, do you think that the Kingdom would take up its Arab Peace Initiative again, and could you comment on the reports of Pakistani and Iranian mediation between Saudi and Iran – Saudi – yeah, Saudi and Iran – Iraqi mediation, sorry?

Adel al-Jubeir

Yes. We have a – with regards to the first question, the Arab Peace Initiative was never taken off the table. It remained – it was introduced in Bei – at the Beirut Summit in 2002 in April, and it was reiterated at every Arab Summit, including the last summit. The initiative is on the table. We believe that a critical settlement has to be based on two states, with 67 voters. Miner mutually agreed to adjustments to the borders, with East Jerusalem, the capital of Palestine, and West Jerusalem, capital of Israel. Very simple, and I think the – in December of 2005, the Organisation of Islamic countries adopted this initiative unanimously. So, now it is the position of 55+ Muslim countries, and we have urged the US and urged other countries to take this initiative and build on it, in order to have peace, and we believe that the – it is possible, if there is courage, and if there is resolve, and if there is the political will to do so, because if we can resolve this problem, which is the longest-running problem in the Middle East, I think it will open the door for a lot of very, very positive things to happen. With regards to mediation, we’re not having any mediation. We – people come to us, with ideas or suggestions, and we give them our response, and our response is, “Here’s what Iran needs to do,” and that’s it, and we would like to see actions rather than words.

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

Right, sorry, gentleman next, yeah, exactly there first, and then I’m coming back to that corner of the room and then I’m going over there.

Dan Sabbagh

I’m Dan Sabbagh from the – Journalist from the Guardian. After what happened to Abqaiq, Donald Trump said memorably that he was, “Locked and loaded and ready to respond.” Of course, nothing happened, and perhaps that was to do with Saudi Arabia. But in particular, after what we’ve seen happen in the last two weeks in Syria, does Saudi Arabia believe it can rely on Donald Trump, or is another approach needed?

Adel al-Jubeir

The United States is a strategic ally and partner of Saudi Arabia. We have had a relationship that goes 80 years. We have seen the coming and breaking of many storms together. We have worked to pushback against radicalism in the Arab world in the 50s and 60s. We have worked to pushback against Soviet encroachment into the region in the 70s and 80s. Of course, in the 80s, we worked together to support the Mujahideen against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. In 1990, we put together a coalition of more than 30 countries to liberate Kuwait. In the 1990s, we were beginning to go after terrorists. After 9/11, our partnership, in terms of counter-terrorism, has been extremely strong and robust. With every passing decade, the relationship grows broader, deeper and stronger. We have no doubt, in where America stands, when it comes to Saudi Arabia or the security of Saudi Arabia, and I believe the US has no doubt in where Saudi Arabia stands, when it comes to our common effort against extremism and terrorism and terror financing, and our common effort to try to bring stability to the region. So, that’s the best way for me to explain it.

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

Yeah, please, at the back. Sorry, behind the person with the white shirt first, and I’ll come to the gentleman with the white shirt afterwards, in the corner.

Paul Melley

Paul Melley, Africa Programme at Chatham House. You mentioned your support for the G5 and the countries in the Sahel. Could you clarify at the moment what is the state of Saudi funding for the G5 force? There were reports that that had been delayed, and what generally is the state of your wider support for the G5 development programme as well? Thank you.

Adel al-Jubeir

We have a – we are the largest contributor to the arming of the G5 forces. The actual selection of the arms and the disbursement and payments are something that’s technical that we don’t deal with in the foreign ministry. We also have a programme, with each of the G5 countries through the Saudi Development Fund, in order to provide economic assistance, development projects to those countries. We believe that we need to be able to fight the extremists and the terrorists on the one hand, while we improve the living conditions of the people on the other hand, in order to reduce the chances that they can be recruited, and so this is what we’re working on, and our development programme or our development assistance to Africa, is one of the largest in the world and it extends beyond the G5 countries.

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

Thank you. Right, there’s a question coming to this side now, please, yeah.

Heni Fadayel

Thank you, Robin. Heni Fadayel, former Advisor, British Parliamentary Group on the GCC. Welcome Foreign Minister. It’s great to see Shahrukh Khan, Jean-Claude van Damme and Jackie Chan in Saudi Arabia, and that was wonderful. My question is to do with the issue of investment and foreign policy. Robin’s alluded to this. Clearly, if you’re going to foster confidence in people investing in your country to transition from getting off oil into having a mixed economy, you’ve got to have that investment pretty fast for Vision 2030 to be successful, and for your economy in future to break even, because you’ve got a growing population. In terms of your foreign policy, whether it’s the standoff with Qatar, Yemen, now Iran, the involvement in Syria, have those foreign policy objectives been achieved? If not, how successful have they been? And what issues are there, if any, with the strategy? Because, clearly, take for example the – going back to that issue of Qatar, they’ve turned round and said, “We’re not going to implement what the quartet are saying.” You have a close partnership with the Egyptians, with the Emiratis, but there doesn’t seem to have been the kind of success I think you would’ve envisaged.

Adel al-Jubeir

I think on – in Yemen, for instance, that was a war that we didn’t choose. It was a war that was imposed on us. Saudi Arabia was the country working with the GCC that prevented the collapse of Yemen under President – former President Saleh, when we introduced the GCC initiative, which led to a transitional government. The Yemenis established a national dialogue, where they discussed the future of Yemen and came up with the blueprint for what that future should look like. They then were going to write a Constitution, in order to move the process along, and that’s when the Houthis moved from Sadah to Oman and attacked Sanaa and took over the Government. So, we had no choice but to respond to support the legitimate government and prevent Yemen from falling into the hands of a radical group, allied with Iran and Hezbollah.

We didn’t want this war, and from day one, we have said that the solution to Yemen is a political solution. That all the Yemeni factions, including the Houthis, have a right to be part of that solution, and we’re trying to see what we can do, in supporting the UN envoy, the various envoys, most recently, Martin Griffiths, on moving towards a political solution. Saudi Arabia supported every agreement that was made, but unfortunately, it wasn’t implemented. The Stockholm Agreement would not have happened, were it not for Saudi Arabia’s involvement and the personal involvement of his Royal Highness, the Crown Prince. We are now moving towards implementation of this agreement, and we’re trying to mediate between the Southern Transition Council and the Hadi Government, in order to stabilise Yemen and then move towards seeing what we can do about mercy flights and airport openings and access of humanitarian assistance.

While we’re doing this, we have provided Yemen with more than $14 billion in humanitarian assistance, more than any other country in the world. We have plans for Yemen’s reconstruction, when the conflict is over. So, that’s – I don’t see this as a failure, I see this as a success in the making. The – when people say five years in Yemen, I look at an international coalition fighting for 19 years in Afghanistan. I look at an international coalition of over 70 countries, including the world’s great powers fighting for five years to defeat Daesh in Syria and Iraq. Wars take time, and we tried to see – find a political process to move Yemen out of its quagmire, and that’s one.

Syria we didn’t start. In Syria, you had a revolution that started, and we, along with allied countries, went to support the moderate opposition in Syria. And we have always said 2254, we were instrumental in drafting that resolution, calling for a political settlement, based on the Geneva 1 Declaration, and we worked on unifying the Syrian opposition in Riyadh, several years ago, and we worked on expanding the Syrian opposition, through the negotiating committee in Riyadh last year. Now we have the constitutional committee that they have set up, which we support, and we hope that this will be the beginning of a political process, in order to extra Syria from the quagmire that it is and end the war, allow refugees to go back, allow internally displaced people to go back, and then move towards a – make sure that we have a stable, unified Syria, with no Iranian influence.

That’s what we’re doing in Iraq, for example. We have opened up a new chapter several years ago. We’re opening up border crossings. We have trade that’s growing exponentially. We have visits by officials of both countries that have – that are fairly intense in tempo. So, I see that as a positive. In Afghanistan, we’re trying to bring peace. In – with Pakistan and India, we’re trying to lower temperatures. In the Red Sea, what we did with Ethiopia and Eritrea after 20 years of conflict is very positive, and the Red Sea as a whole, we’re trying to integrate those economies, so we have balanced development and we can deal with environmental issues, we can deal with trafficking issues, and we can deal with piracy issues. So, I don’t see it as failure. I think we’re dealing with the challenges that we’re confronted with, in the best manner that we can.

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

I think we’ll – I’m sure we’ll come back to Syria, and I’ve got lots of hands, which I’ll be turning to, as to whether it’s working, given that certainly Assad – President Assad and his Iranian backers seem to be on the ascendant right now, but we – let – hold that, just on Yemen, could you say a word or two about your relationship with the Emiratis on this, because it seemed that was very much a close coalition with Egypt as well. There seemed to be, again, for me as a bit of an outsider, but I’ve picked up a difference in emphasis, maybe a splitting in the ways, including of some of the groups being supported there. What can you share with the audience here about how the co-ordination is today between the Emirati Government and Saudi Arabia over Yemen?

Adel al-Jubeir

Well, the Emiratis are allies of Saudi Arabia and the Emiratis were with us in the war in Yemen. They have provided a large number of forces in Yemen. I think they are rearranging their presence in Yemen. They haven’t pulled out, they still have forces in other parts of Yemen. We are working with the Yemenis – with the Emiratis on how we can make the Yemeni forces more effective, and so that’s – and the co-ordination is ongoing. I think this idea that there’s a split or that they’re just cut and run is really not reflected by the reality of what’s happening on the ground.

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

Maybe a different strategy, maybe. Here, question here first, please, and then I’m going to come back to the front here, and I will hopefully get all of you in. That gentleman there’s been waiting, yeah.

Mohamed Amersi

Hello, Mohamed Amersi. Thank you very much, Minister, for a very informative account here. The question I have is this, that the United States, there is a perception that they seem to be retreating from the Middle East because their dependency on Middle Eastern oil is getting less and less. Russia is trying to fill the vacuum. Indeed, President Putin was in Saudi Arabia recently. Do you believe that Russia can be an honest broker in the Middle East at all? And there is also talk of Russia trying to sell nuclear capabilities to Saudi Arabia. One way to neutralise Iran is for Saudi Arabia to develop its own nuclear capabilities. Why should this not be on the cards?

Adel al-Jubeir

We – well, first of all, I don’t believe the US is retreating from the Middle East, and I don’t believe that America becoming an exporter of oil changes the nature of the oil markets. Oil is fungible. If you have a shortage of oil in one part of the world, prices rise all over the world. If you have a problem in the Middle East, it’s going to impact the consumer at the gas station in Ohio. So, that’s not an issue, and any damage to the international economic system is damage to all countries, including the US, which is the world’s largest economy. So, that’s one part. I don’t believe the US is retreating. The US is a global power, it has interests in the region, and you can see it, in terms of their military presence in the Gulf, you can see it in terms of what they’re doing, in terms of the issue of piracy and the issue of the G5 countries in the Sahel, and you see it in terms of their engagement with us and others in trying to stabilise the Sudan. So, I don’t see this as a retreat. There may be some shifting of assets, but not – that doesn’t mean a retreat, I don’t buy into that scenario.

The – with regards to the role of Russia, we have developed good ties with Russia, but those ties do not come at the expense of our strategic relationship with the US. Over the past few years, we have had a number of visits to Russia by our leadership and from Russia to Saudi Arabia by their leadership. We consult with them on regional issues and we think if there’s a role that they can play that is a positive one, we would welcome this. So, we don’t see it as competing with our relationship with the US or coming at the cost of that relationship. Russia, at the end of the day, was the first country to recognise Saudi Arabia in the 1920s, and today we are both large oil exporters, so we have an interest in stabilising the energy markets. Russia has a substantial Muslim population, so that’s important to us, as well as to Russia, so we have a relationship there. And so, to try to build a relationship, a positive relationship is not a negative.

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

A couple of questions at the front, a gentleman there right in the corner first, and the lady there. I will come – yeah, right in the corner, he’s first, and then the lady between.

Dominic Dudley

Hi, Dominic Dudley, Gulf States Newsletter. I wanted to ask you about your approach to Oman these days. There’s been suggestions that it maybe turns a bit of a blind eye to smuggling across the border, towards the – so the Houthis can re-equip. So, your thoughts on that, and more broadly, do you think they’re getting too close to Iran and have they lost their potential as a go-between, as a mediator between Saudi and Iran?

Adel al-Jubeir

Well, I think the – Oman is a member of the GCC, so Oman is an ally of Saudi Arabia. We have talked to the Omanis about the issue of smuggling. They have said that they’re doing their best and they’re saying that they’re trying to seal the border off. We have – and so we’ll continue to work with them and engage with them. They have also spoken to the US and to the UK about the – how to deal with this issue. So, that’s an ongoing conversation. I don’t believe that Oman’s policy, and I’d rather have the Omani Minister speak about this, but has always been trying to balance and reach out to others. That doesn’t put them at odds or make them negative, from our perspective. When President Sadat went to Egypt, all the Arab countries cut off ties with Egypt. Oman did not, because we need to engage and have dialogue. So, I don’t think that Iran’s relationship with – Oman’s relationship with Iran is detrimental. I think that we believe the Iranians need to understand that their policy of aggression and murder and destruction has to stop, if they want to be accepted in the community of nations.

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

And the lady there, please.

Dr Salma Abbasi

Thank you very much, Minister. My name is Dr Salma Abbasi from eWorldwide Group. My question is more on the words you were talking about for the empowerment of youth and for women. Are there any specific initiatives that you have for the OIC countries to closer the collaboration, specifically in those areas where we have destabled areas, and because the youth are basically disengaged and not taking advantage of the opportunities that technology and AI can bring, and entrepreneurship? So, is there something we can do to increase the collaboration across the OIC countries? Thanks.

Adel al-Jubeir

I believe the OIC is looking at areas like this and has been for time – for some time. One of the priorities has been to see how one can increase trade within the OIC. The Muslim countries have tremendous resources, they have tremendous populations, they have tremendous markets, they have tremendous talent, but they trade outside and the idea is, can you generate synergy between different countries, so that everybody benefits? This was a conversation that began in the OIC several years ago, and of course, empowerment of youth and women is definitely a part of this. I’m not privy to the details, but I can tell you that from a general perspective, there is that sense of we need to do more, in order to do this because this is how ultimately, we defeat extremism, by providing people with opportunity, by providing them with hope, by providing them with jobs.

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

Gentleman there with the white shirt, yeah. Yeah, you’re in the right row. Just go along. Keep your hand up, sir, keep your hand up. Yeah, right there, in the white shirt.

Frank Gelli

Frank Gelli, Member of Chatham House. Could you clarify why the Saudi Air Force has bombarded those fighting with Saudi forces on the battlefield of Kitaf Najran after they surrendered to [inaudible – 43:13] of the de facto government in [inaudible – 43:17], or is it once again, the bad Iranian guys who are responsible?

Adel al-Jubeir

You’re – are you referring to the attack against the detention facility of the Houthis? Okay, we are – and we investigate any such incidents. The facility was not declared to the United Nations, nor to the coalition, so it can be put on a no-strike list. We have more than 60,000 locations that are on a no-strike list. The – when the facility was attacked, there were multiple explosions afterwards, so obviously, the Houthis were using it – were using a weapons depot and putting people in it, who are human shields. When we don’t know – when we are not informed that a facility is a detention facility, how do we know? And when we have evidence that indicates that this is a weapons depot and nothing that says that they have human beings in it, that’s not our problem, that’s the Houthi problem, and we’re looking into this issue, as we’re looking at other issues.

We have more than 100 cases that we’re investigating, where we believe it could’ve been intelligence error, it could’ve been targeting error, it could’ve been – but we’re doing this and we announced the results of our investigations to the world, unlike the Houthis. The Houthis use child soldiers, 20,000, I don’t hear people complain about it. The Houthis stop humanitarian assistance, I don’t see people complaining about it. The Houthis launched more than 260 missiles at Saudi Arabia. Nobody says anything. So, there’s the – there is no – seems to be no balance in the criticism of the different sides, and so, in any case, that’s what we’re looking at. We have millions of mines that the Houthis made in Yemen that have led to the death and injury of thousands of people, and we’re trying to get rid of those mines. So, we’re doing our best to minimise casualties, and we’re doing our best to abide by international humanitarian law. We’re doing our best to make sure that we have as complete a list of no-strike zones or targets as we can. That’s what countries do in wars, and if an accident happened, we investigate it and we take procedures to prevent it from happening again.

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

I’m sure you’re pleased to be held to that higher standard. I mean, as you said, you wouldn’t want to be held to the same standard as to the Houthis. So, the fact that there’s no balance, you – I think you will be held to a higher standard, which is good. The gentleman right at the back there with the glasses, yeah, left hand side. I’ll come to you afterwards. Yeah, keep your hand up, yeah. Yeah.

Temoric Bahl

Minister, this is Temoric Bahl, Chatham House Member. In regards to the situation in Kashmir, which is further deteriorating, the region is still in the state of curfew and in there is a lockdown. Do you intend to play a role of mediator between India and Pakistan, and what are your specific concerns on Kashmir, as of now?

Adel al-Jubeir

Yeah, we have been in touch with both India and Pakistan about the importance of calming the situation down and the importance of trying to get to the negotiating table, in order to resolve issues through negotiations. The two sides don’t want – India does not want mediation and they believe that this is a bilateral issue with Pakistan, but we’re trying to see how we can encourage the two sides to move towards an area of agreement. The humanitarian situation in Kashmir is one that is painful, and we’re trying to see how one can ease that situation, and then we want to make sure that, as I said, the communications and contacts between India and Pakistan are actually intensified, not reduced, to prevent any accidents from happening.

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

You’re doing an amazing job, I’ve got so many hands going up. I’m going to keep running through them and apologies for those I won’t get to. First, the gentleman right at the back, yeah, exactly, who has been waiting very patient, and I’m going to the door over here, yeah.

James Spencer

Thank you very much, James Spencer. What are Saudi’s current views of UK investors? Has it changed particularly after the UK Government has shown reluctance to support military exports to Saudi Arabia?

Adel al-Jubeir

UK investors are very welcome in Saudi Arabia. The security relationship between Saudi Arabia and the UK is a very, very strong one. We are one of the largest, if not the largest, customer of defensive hardware from the UK. The – and that relationship is growing. We have the – there’s an issue that I think you’re referring to, with regards to the procedures that the court asked the UK Government to take. Those procedures are internal issues to the UK, with regards to follow-up. They’re not – the court did not question the delivery of defensive equipment to Saudi Arabia, so this is an internal British legal matter, but this has not affected ongoing defence sales to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. We expect our relationship to continue, as it has been for many, many decades, and we look forward to having British investors in Saudi Arabia. We already have tremendous British investments in Saudi Arabia, in the energy field, in the defence, manufacturing and technology, and I would expect that this will continue to grow, as will Saudi investments in the UK.

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

And Brexit makes – as we’re here on this day, I might as well throw it on the agenda, just quickly, I mean, we were discussing this earlier, in terms of any difference the UK inside the EU, outside the EU in terms of trading and/or foreign policy relationships?

Adel al-Jubeir

The UK is a strategic partner of Saudi Arabia and has been for 100 years and will remain so, whether the UK is in the EU or whether the UK is outside of the EU. That’s for you to decide, but we will have a relationship with you, which would be a strategic relationship with you, it would be a strong relationship with you, like I said, whether you’re in the EU or outside of the EU. I believe that Britain is a very innovative country. It’s a country that has a top-notch education system. It’s a country that is – that has technology. It’s a company that has great institutions, it’s a comp – country that has creative people and dynamic people, and Britain will always do extremely well, whether in the EU or outside of the EU. So, we don’t take an issue on whether you should be in and out, that’s your issue, but the relationship between our two countries is not going to change because of that. If anything, there may be more leeway for Britain to maybe negotiate free trade agreements, and so forth, with more independence, if it was not in the EU, but that’s really for the Economists in the UK to establish, not for me.

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

Okay, thank you. Gentleman by the door. Okay, right, well, we’ll do one – I’m going to do one-two, yeah, ‘cause it was actually the gentleman behind you. That’s okay.

Will Chris

Sorry to jump in. It’s Will Chris from Middle East Economic Digest. There were meetings between Saudi officials and Kuwaiti officials last week about the Divided Zone, and there’s been some, kind of, different reports about how they went, with some people reporting that oil production’s going to restart in the Divided Zone, and I’d just like a Saudi update on how the talks went and what we can expect.

Adel al-Jubeir

Yeah, I think I would rather not comment on this issue because it’s a technical issue that’s really handled by our Ministry of Energy. What I do know is that discussions are ongoing with our friends in Kuwait, and you’ve seen the statements that were put out by the Deputy Foreign Minister of Kuwait about progress that is being made. But I can’t tell you the details and I can’t tell you the timing, because really, we’re not – that’s not our lane, as they say, and I don’t want to say anything that could have an impact on the oil markets, because I’m speculating. So, if you forgive me.

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

Okay, we’ll let the speculators do the speculating. Right, gentleman in the corner, yeah.

Member

Good afternoon, Minister, and thank you for your presentation. I just want – my – sorry, my name’s [inaudible – 51:12], and I’m a Member of Chatham House and now based in DSU. I just had a question in relation – you heard a lot of comments about the malign influence of Iran, and posing a question from – some observers could say some of the issues that we have in the Sahel that you’ve mentioned are partly due to what could be defined as malign influences from, you know, Saudi preachers, Wahhabis and sponsors of Salafi organisations that, you know, keep challenging the Sufi Brotherhoods and creating an extremist environment. Also, if you look at places like Sudan, you’ve got sponsorship or Saudi support for people like Hemati, and just alluding to – back to what you said earlier about Al-Qaeda members being in Iran and ordering attacks, we had the Founder or the former Founder, or the dead Founder of Boko Haram in Saudi Arabia post-arrest and prior to his killing. So, my point, or sorry, my question is, wouldn’t it be helpful, you know, in Saudi Arabia’s foreign affairs or foreign policy, to look at some of those behaviours that could be considered malign, particularly in Africa, particularly in the Sahel, and possibly addressing those that would give you maybe a slightly better moral authority to challenge the Iranians?

Adel al-Jubeir

Yeah, we have looked at this. We have had – during the war in Afghanistan in the 1980s, a lot of radicalism emerged, and then, during the war in Bosnia and in the Balkans, a lot of radicalism emerged and a lot of funding for radicalism came, including, unfortunately, from Saudi Arabia. We looked at this issue and we held the organisations or the charities that were operating there to task. We looked at our masks, we dismissed or – thousands of Imams for preaching extremism and hatred. We put the first law in the world where you cannot collect cash in public places, which is – which would be like in Britain banning the silver cup during Sunday service, we did that. Charities in Saudi Arabia cannot operate outside Saudi Arabia. They cannot transfer funds outside of Saudi Arabia. The – you raise money in Saudi Arabia and you spend it in the Kingdom. We have looked at the Islamic centres, in order to ensure that there is no extremism or radicalism that emanates from them. We have looked at Saudi preachers, prominent ones, who have advocated for extremism, and they’re in jail now, as we speak. So, our policy, with regards to extremism, is zero tolerance. We have suffered terrorist attacks, at the hands of individuals who were brainwashed by these radical individuals, and we want to make sure that they cannot continue to poison people. But the issue of extremism in the G5 countries or in Africa or – I believe it’s a legacy issue from 25 or 30 years ago. The reality of it is, especially after 9/11, we took a serious look at Saudi Arabia and we held people to account. We shut down charities and we put in place laws that make it illegal to finance extremism or terrorism.

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

There are so many hands up, I’m not going to get to all of them ‘cause we must let you leave in a very short amount of time. There’s a lady who has been waiting there very patiently, and there’s a gentleman who has been waiting here very patiently. Depending on how quickly you ask the questions, I may be able to get the two over there. So – and yeah.

Member

Hello, thank you. Sarah [inaudible – 54:37], Member. We’ve heard a lot about the traditional players in the Middle East, the US, Russia, Iran, etc. I would be very interested to hear, with China’s growing interest and influence around the world, what you anticipate the role of China to be in the region, if any, politically and economically, in the years to come.

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

I’m going to group some questions and keep a list, because the Minister is so efficient at answering them, and still, I want to know where we are. The gentleman waiting here, and we’ll come over here, and there.

Muslim Sadat

Thank you, Minister. My name is Muslim Sadat, a Member of the Royal College of Defence Studies here in London. You talked a little bit about your initiatives and engagements in the region, important engagements. One in particular was from the peace talks with Taliban. I wonder if you could elaborate a little bit about that, and also, whether you are planning to get Pakistan onboard, given the relationship with Taliban? Thank you.

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

We’ve got China, Afghanistan, I’m writing them down here. The gentleman who has been waiting very patiently right there. Just keep your hand up, please, and there, yeah.

Kim Sengupta

Kim Gupta from the Independent, I’m a Journalist, Minister. Can I ask you about Syria, with what’s just happened to the Kurds and what looks like recapture of Idlib, sooner or later? Do you think [inaudible – 55:50] victory is now complete, and what does that mean for Saudi Arabia and especially for Iran, Iranian influence?

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

Sort of, gentleman there. Is it – yeah, and I know there’s a lady who has been waiting very patiently there. I can’t – I’m sorry, everyone, yeah.

Tom Arnold

Thanks very much. Tom Arnold from Reuters. I just wanted to ask Saudi Arabia, previously, the Finance Minister has previously said that it would provide support to Lebanon, and I just wanted to ask, you know, what form will that support take financially, and what are the conditions attached to that support? And just as a separate question, I wanted to ask…

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

Well, no, I can only – I really can only take one, ‘cause there’s a lady been waiting very patiently there. I’m sorry, I know there’s a gentleman behind that was waiting a lot as well, but I’ve got to stop there.

Fatima Syed

Thank you.

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

You’re also ticking all the ones I had left on my list. China, Lebanon, Syria, boom, boom, boom, they’ve all come. Yeah.

Fatima Syed

Thank you. So, my name is Fatima Syed. My question is with regards to – so, you talked about empowerment of youth and women in the Kingdom. How sustainable do you think these cosmetic reforms are going to be, without – I think the elephant in the room here is democracy? So, how do you think these are actually going to be sustained, without that underpinning them, and what do you make of all the female activists that are currently in Saudi prisons that are not able to enjoy some of these reforms they fought for? And we’re seeing, you know, this anti-establishment wave going through, you mentioned Lebanon, we’re seeing protests in – across Lebanon now, across the Arab world. Are you afraid that you’re going to see that wave at your doorstep soon, and what are you doing to counteract that, maybe?

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

You could – we could do a whole – we could start the whole thing again, with these five questions and do another hour, but I’ve got the list, if you could just say a quick – on each one.

Adel al-Jubeir

I’ll start with the last question. Well, first of all, I take exception with describing the reforms as cosmetic. They’re not cosmetic, they’re revolutionary. Women can drive, which is – should have happened many years ago. The women can travel without anyone’s permission. Women have the same access to the workplace as – including salaries, as men, according to our labour laws. The public place is no longer segregated. There is a dress code. Women are – represent 39% today of entrepreneurs in Saudi Arabia. In the Foreign Ministry, for example, four years ago, the incoming diplomatic class was 10% women, last year it was 50%. That’s not cosmetic change, that’s serious change. When you look at women – businesswomen in Saudi Arabia, I believe two or three of our top five banks, they have women CEOs. That’s not cosmetic change. When you look at Ministers that were appointed, women, they were appointed because of their capabilities and expertise, not because they were women. That’s not cosmetic change. The women that you talk about, the activists were not detained because they were activists, they were detained because they were doing things that violates the law. They were co-operating with foreign governments, they were recruiting people in sensitive positions. Most of them have now been released on bail, pending their trials, and we will – and the legal system will have to take its course. That’s what we have here. When we look at the reforms that are happening in Saudi Arabia, it’s ongoing, it will con – we will continue to evolve as a country, we will continue to build institutions. Those institutions will continue to become stronger. The objective is to make our country a normal place in which normal men and women lead normal lives. That’s what we’re working towards, and the changes that have taken place, in the last three years, have been astonishing, but that’s not the end of it. We have to continue moving in a direction that provides stability and prosperity for our people. That’s on this issue.

The second one was…

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

China.

Adel al-Jubeir

China is the world’s second largest economy. China continues to grow. I believe the next 50 years will continue to see the rise of China. China has tremendous interest in the Middle East. The Gulf region is the largest source of energy for China. It needs this energy for its growth and so stability and security in the Gulf is very important to China, and China has made that very clear. We have – China is today our largest trading partner. We have huge investments in China, and the Chinese have huge investments in Saudi Arabia. So, I think that the relationship is a mutually beneficial one. China has also great ties with the other Gulf countries. China is the largest investor in Africa, and so the role that the Chinese have taken is really more of a trade and investment and trying to resolve conflicts, through dialogue, than by an activist foreign policy, and I think it’s driven by what they see as ways to continue to encourage the growth in China. People forget that China defines itself as a developing country, and so, China is very keen on expanding the massive developments it has in parts of China, to include the rest of China, and I believe it’s going to take a long, long time. We will continue to see, for many, many years the rise of China, and we don’t see it as a negative.

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

I’ll let you do a line each before your staff get really upset with me, something on Lebanon, Syria and Afghanistan. Those are the last three easy ones.

Adel al-Jubeir

In Lebanon, we have been supportive of the Lebanese Prime Minister and continue to be, and we have been supportive of Lebanon economically. I can’t speak about the details, I think I will leave that to my colleague in the Finance Ministry. We have – we believe that Lebanon is unique in the Arab world and that if Lebanon didn’t exist, we would have to invent it. It’s a country which has 16 different religious and ethnic groups and sects that live together, and if they can live together in harmony, it enriches the Middle East. If minorities in Lebanon feel that they are not secure and they begin to leave, then no minority in the Arab World will feel secure and stay in their country. So, our minorities, whether they’re Christians or Chaldeans or Kurds or have enriched – or Copts, have enriched our culture as Arabs, and they’ve enriched our region, so we want to make sure that that’s preserved, that they are part of our social fabric, and that’s why success in Lebanon is important and we will continue to support them. And then we have a large Lebanese community in Saudi Arabia that remits billions of dollars every year to Lebanon, which helps, also, with the Lebanese economy.

Then we had Afghanistan. Afghanistan, we are working with the Afghan Government, we’re working with our partners in the UAE and in the United States. We’re trying to work with Zalmay Khalizad, the US Envoy to Afghanistan, in order to try to see how we can stabilise the situation in Afghanistan. We’re also talking to – working with our friends in Pakistan about the situation in Afghanistan. We think that Afghanistan has suffered way too long. We believe that after the Afghans defeated the Soviet Union, the world ignored Afghanistan, and this allowed the Taliban to emerge, and then you had Al-Qaeda, and then you had the war in Afghanistan, which has raged for 19 years. We believe that our brothers and sisters in Afghanistan, for the last 40 years, have seen nothing but death and destruction, and we want to be as supportive as we can in trying to help extract Afghanistan from the problem that it’s experiencing. We have over a million Afghanis, who live in Saudi Arabia, and they have jobs there. Many of them have been there for more than a generation or two, and they’re welcome and so, we have family ties, we have religious ties, we have political ties, we have economic ties, and it’s very important to us to try to help stabilise the situation in Afghanistan.

And then…

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

Very last one, if you’ve got a second, would just be whether Syria is going in a place that you can live with, with the, kind of, stepping up of the position of President Assad being able to take control of the borders. Looks like he’s won that civil war.

Adel al-Jubeir

It’s the – nobody wins a civil war, unless the refugees return and the displaced people return and the prisoners are released and there’s an amnesty. Nobody wins a war, unless you begin the reconstruction, and the reconstruction of Syria, and so it’s a tragic situation. I don’t believe there’s a winner or a loser in a situation like this. I think everybody loses and everybody can win, and you will win by moving towards political process, by maintaining the territorial integrity of the country, by maintaining your own independence, by not letting an outside power like Iran try to influence what’s happening, and by not letting Shia militias like Hezbollah run amok in your country. You win by bringing everybody together and you win by ending the bloodshed and moving towards reconstruction.

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

Foreign Minister, you – by my count, you’ve taken 19 questions, in addition to the ones that I posed at the beginning.

Adel al-Jubeir

Let’s make it – you can make it 20.

Dr Robin Niblett CMG

Make it a round 20. I don’t know, ‘cause then I’ll set off a battle of all the people there, and also, your new Ambassador will never return to Chatham House, ‘cause he might think you’re going to be late for your next meeting already. So, let me just say on behalf of the members of Chatham House, we appreciate very much you coming here, speaking candidly, taking all questions from all fronts, appreciate it very much, and I think on behalf of all my members of Chatham House, a strong thank you. Thank you very much indeed [applause].

Adel al-Jubeir

Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much.